• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

SWO Non-Attainment

serda07

New Member
I will hit my 18th month mark this January, and have told CO via my XO that I should be non attained b/c I lack the motivation and interest in this field to be successful in the "long run" as I will NEVER (by choice)be a dept. head. The last 18 months I have done my job as AUXO, I've done three DITS inspections(90%'s), INSURV (93%), 2 Ultra-S's and a deployment w/o a chief. I have helped out as many sailors I could by guiding them into college classes, through personal and professional hurdles, and even fought with my CO to make sure my guys are taken care of. All in all I am very well respected as a J.O. on the ship from my peers and the crew. I feel I have seen what the SWO life has to offer, and to be frank I'd rather be a grunt in Afghanistan. Having said that I have dropped an inter-service package to the army which was denied by the Navy(b/c I "still have time on my contract") so it was never sent to the Army! Later I found out from the detailer no matter what i cant go Army till my 3 yr mark. I have volunteered for an I.A. and again been shot down due to not having my pin. And so many people tell you "getting your pin is the way to get what you want", but ive seen all those people and ya know what they still hate their job, they just have one less thing to hate about it. All my buddies still havnt gotten there lateral transfers its all just a "wishing" game. And I know the question or snide remarks that will come so I will answer them as they come, as I have had many MANY "watches" to think about them.

I feel i have been very upfront with my CoC about where i want to go with my career in the military, I want to go help out overseas and use my skills I learned as a Corpsman. Last week my XO said he and the CO would NOT non-attain me instead they would DFC me or he said "you can resign", and of course "you could just get your pin" then move on. I tried to show him the DFC instruciton (MILPERSMAN 1611-020) and try to tell him this did not apply to the situation, as I have ZERO paperwork in my file for "cause". I have done nothing wrong in my time here on the ship, but he didn't seem to care. When I told him I didnt want to resign b/c I wasn't trying to get out of the Military just do a job i could be passionate about, he said the obvious reply of "thats not how this works". So I asked what if i resigned and it gets turned down? He then told me "Im not suppose to tell you this, but just go lay in your rack and do nothing at all...we'll take care of the rest" I laughed and said not thanks i have my division that that would screw over. I then showed him the Non-attainment inst. (COMNAVSURFORINST 1412.1B) and (MILPERSMAN 1210-090) which states "COs who recognize that a 116X designated officer lacks motivation, interest, aptitude or application to qualify WILL submit a report containing the circumstances, officer’s potential and an appropriate recommendation concerning retention in the naval service, via the chain of command, to NPC (PERS-412). Reports of fitness should also reflect unsatisfactory progress toward SWO qualification. 116X officers failing to attain SWO qualification will be processed as training attrites and will be detailed to follow-on assignments according to the needs of the Navy." All my fitreps say the same thing motivated Ensign who is trying to go Army, but has great potential. I could go on but i think this is enough to get the idea of the story here.

Finally my question: is What grounds could i possible be DFC'ed for, ive read the inst. and just couldn't figure it out. Just wondering if someone had any experience in this realm. I have been advised to go speak with Legal just to help me put together a letter to submit to the CO on letter head stating my intentions to "cutoff" the DFC process or at the very least be my first piece of evidence for the DFC investigation. I can fill in more info if someone has any questions. Trying to find people to talk to about this is harder than finding WMD's in the middle east.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
serda07 said:
I will hit my 18th month mark this January, and have told CO via my XO that I should be non attained b/c I lack the motivation and interest in this field to be successful in the "long run" as I will NEVER (by choice)be a dept. head. The last 18 months I have done my job as AUXO, I've done three DITS inspections(90%'s), INSURV (93%), 2 Ultra-S's and a deployment w/o a chief. I have helped out as many sailors I could by guiding them into college classes, through personal and professional hurdles, and even fought with my CO to make sure my guys are taken care of. All in all I am very well respected as a J.O. on the ship from my peers and the crew. I feel I have seen what the SWO life has to offer, and to be frank I'd rather be a grunt in Afghanistan. Having said that I have dropped an inter-service package to the army which was denied by the Navy(b/c I "still have time on my contract") so it was never sent to the Army! Later I found out from the detailer no matter what i cant go Army till my 3 yr mark. I have volunteered for an I.A. and again been shot down due to not having my pin. And so many people tell you "getting your pin is the way to get what you want", but ive seen all those people and ya know what they still hate their job, they just have one less thing to hate about it. All my buddies still havnt gotten there lateral transfers its all just a "wishing" game. And I know the question or snide remarks that will come so I will answer them as they come, as I have had many MANY "watches" to think about them.

I feel i have been very upfront with my CoC about where i want to go with my career in the military, I want to go help out overseas and use my skills I learned as a Corpsman. Last week my XO said he and the CO would NOT non-attain me instead they would DFC me or he said "you can resign", and of course "you could just get your pin" then move on. I tried to show him the DFC instruciton (MILPERSMAN 1611-020) and try to tell him this did not apply to the situation, as I have ZERO paperwork in my file for "cause". I have done nothing wrong in my time here on the ship, but he didn't seem to care. When I told him I didnt want to resign b/c I wasn't trying to get out of the Military just do a job i could be passionate about, he said the obvious reply of "thats not how this works". So I asked what if i resigned and it gets turned down? He then told me "Im not suppose to tell you this, but just go lay in your rack and do nothing at all...we'll take care of the rest" I laughed and said not thanks i have my division that that would screw over. I then showed him the Non-attainment inst. (COMNAVSURFORINST 1412.1B) and (MILPERSMAN 1210-090) which states "COs who recognize that a 116X designated officer lacks motivation, interest, aptitude or application to qualify WILL submit a report containing the circumstances, officer’s potential and an appropriate recommendation concerning retention in the naval service, via the chain of command, to NPC (PERS-412). Reports of fitness should also reflect unsatisfactory progress toward SWO qualification. 116X officers failing to attain SWO qualification will be processed as training attrites and will be detailed to follow-on assignments according to the needs of the Navy." All my fitreps say the same thing motivated Ensign who is trying to go Army, but has great potential. I could go on but i think this is enough to get the idea of the story here.

Finally my question: is What grounds could i possible be DFC'ed for, ive read the inst. and just couldn't figure it out. Just wondering if someone had any experience in this realm. I have been advised to go speak with Legal just to help me put together a letter to submit to the CO on letter head stating my intentions to "cutoff" the DFC process or at the very least be my first piece of evidence for the DFC investigation. I can fill in more info if someone has any questions. Trying to find people to talk to about this is harder than finding WMD's in the middle east.
You're an idiot and a sea lawyer. Just get the fucking pin. It doesn't mean you are a SWO for life, it means you are being a professional. Then once you have the pin, you can apply for other things.

With the attitude you are showing, there is no way your CoC is going to recommend you for anything - inter-service transfer, IA, etc. Plus with the attitude you are showing, you shouldn't be an officer anyway. You think you're Sailors don't see this? The DFC is easy - lack of confidence in you from your CoC, lack of professionalism, and lack of leadership. DFC is what you deserve.

So get the fucking pin or resign. I hope you do the Navy and yourself a favor and choose to resign.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
You're an idiot and a sea lawyer.

So get the fucking pin or resign. I hope you do the Navy and yourself a favor and choose to resign.
So clearly the Navy and the Marine Corps agree on something (well, other than getting married).

Resign your commission and enlist. Because you're being an unprofessional sea lawyer now...

Or, do your fucking best (which includes EARNING your SWO qual), and see what happens... For what it's worth - PSW (my wife) would spit on you for WANTING to non-attain. She started as a SWO and is now an IW. And she's probably been in country longer than you have...
 

NavAir42

I'm not dead yet....
pilot
You have no business being in the Navy or any other of the services. It's not about doing what you want, it's doing what your country asked you to do. In your case, your country asked you to be a SWO. You have your head jammed so far up your ass with visions of being some sort of IA Commando or Army Ranger that you've over looked your first obligation. Drop your damn letter and get the hell out of my Navy. You're not going to find any support here.
 

CAMike

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Serda07- You need to accept that up until this day- you mismanaged your priorities in a huge way. Command climate issues, personality issues or not- you need to immediately change course 180...now, or depart the Navy.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Dude, sounds like you've already burned too many bridges. Instead of trying to work within the system, you tried to jump out, pissed off the people who can significantly impact your future, and fucked yourself over.

Not even sure why'd you post this here rather than sailorbob (not that I expect the responses to be much different) where you'd get some help from people who have been in your shoes at one point.

You're like THE story of how not to try to transfer out of SWO.
 

SWO Bubba

Well-Known Member
None
Serda,

I really want to be helpful on this rather than emotional, but you are challenging me in a big way. If I were your CO and you pulled this crap with me, I'd get rid of you by the fastest possible means. At the same time I can see where you are coming from and have had some related discussions with a number of Junior Officers. Here are a couple of points, and I don't mean to make these comments sound antagonistic:

1) Your point of view is incredibly short sighted. I don't know your commissioning source, but you made a commitment to the Navy for a period of time and you need to live up to that commitment. Pulling a non-attain to get out of your commitment is dishonest and displays an absolute lack of integrity and professionalism.
2) You correctly quote the non-attain instruction. However, the "detailed to follow-on orders for the needs of the Navy" means you will be shown the door. BUPERS currently holds a Probationary Officer Continuation Review Board (Officers less than 6 years of service) to evaluate continued service for training attritions and conduct issues. Your voluntary non-attain status will be viewed as a Drop On Request (DOR) and you will likely be administratively separated from the service. With the Navy over end-strength, there is no need for your continued service. Once you are admin separated from the Navy, I don't know how that will impact re-commissioning in the Army.
3) The honorable and appropriate way to handle this is to serve out your commitment to the Navy, earning all the expected qualifications along the way, and the honorably resigning your commission. Then you should be able to re-commission in the Army through the Army recruiting process or inter-service transfer.
4) Check your attitude!!!! Your frustration and emotion is bound to spill over to the rest of the wardroom and god-forbid, your enlisted Sailors. If I were your CO and found proof of you disparaging the chain-of-command, I would absolutely hammer you!!! You are a severe risk to command climate and good order and discipline. You are setting the example of honor, courage and commitment to your Sailors, and not doing a very good job of it with your true intentions. Your command must document your actions in order to DFC, but it sounds like your giving them all kinds of ammunition - and it doesn't have to be based on poor performance (i.e. good things your division is doing).

I'm on your CO's side on this. I recommend doing the right and honorable thing even though it delays your personal agenda.

This is what separates boys/girls from men/women. Be a man and do the right thing.

Cheers,
Bubba
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
So...you are saying this?

"I lied to the Navy, saying that I am willing to drive ships for a living. I let the Navy train me and waste 18 months on me and now I am saying I want to go somewhere else. My immediate supervisors is insulted by this and the fact that I consider the career he has dedicated many years of his life toward to be beneath me. I have a great opinion of the job I have done, even though my boss doesn't. I consider this to be his short coming, not mine. I am willing to do anything I can, except what my boss recommended, to force the Navy to do things my way and let me do what I want."

Am I mssing anything?

Your peers as a grunt will be MUCH less tolerant of your attitude. While your Navy peers may look at you with disdain, roll their eyes, or smirk at you, that attitude may invite a grenade in your tent as a grunt. I certainly wouldn't want to share a tent or CHU with you.

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WOULD YOU A--HOLES STOP TRYING TO COME TO THE ARMY! I would rather you just stay there in the Navy! For every one decent prior Navy guy we get, there are five guys just like you! All you do is end up giving the Navy a bad name!
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Although, you're an officer, it sounds like you need the same advice I've told my sailors in their career development boards....


If you don't like your current job, and want to do something else, do you REALLY think the best way to go about it is to fail at your current job? If you can't get your pin, and show enough motivation to accomplish one of the BASIC tasks assigned to you as a SWO JO, do you REALLY think anyone will be motivated to help you out with finding a job more suitable to you, help you laterally transfer, or help you interservice transfer to the Army? HELL NO.

I've got guys who want to do something else either in the Navy or even getting OUT of the Navy who work their asses off, and you can bet that pays dividends in getting help for them to do that. I've got other people who think "I'm getting out of the Navy, so fuck this job"... but .... who do you think they could possibly put as a reference on a job app? They've been in the Navy for 4 years, so it'll probably be someone they worked with in the Navy who saw an un-motivated, lazy slacker who did a mediocre job.

I understand you think you're a great JO in all respects EXCEPT getting your pin, but ultimately not being warefare qualified in whatever designator is one of the most basic failures. GET THE PIN and start showing motivation and performance and perhaps your CoC will be more apt to help you.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
^^ What he said.

What makes you think that other jobs are going to want to hire a failure? Because when you don't get your SWO pin, that's what you're telling everyone you are.
 
Top