Suggestions for selecting Navy Pilot?

Hello All,

I'm a current sophomore (3/c) at the US Naval Academy who wants to service select Navy Air. Are there any recent Academy grads out there that can offer some advice as to what should be done to optimize my chances of getting to fly after I graduate? Thanks very much in advance.

I'm going to caveat this by saying I was a ROTC guy, not USNA, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think there is any extra magic involved getting SNA/NFO in either place. Get good grades, do well in your commissioning program, and get a competitive ASTB score (as well as pass the flight physical stuff). I'm sure you have friends at the Academy who are wanting to go aviation as well, so right there are the folks you need to be competitive with. See what they do, and do it better

I'm an NROTC guy, too, but I'm pretty certain the same things matter for service assignment at Canoe U. Piggybacking on MIDNJAC's advice:

1) Get good grades (I believe this is the single biggest part of service assignment)
2) Have a good PT score
3) Be involved and perform well at USNA/NROTC stuff and extracurriculars (read: "get good FITREPs")
4) Don't be a shitbag

+1; Other than that, there isn't much (unless maybe your dad is an admiral?)

Sidebar: You're a 2nd semester 3/C. Have they not told you guys how to be competitive yet? I don't want this to sound mean, but this is the sort of thing most people figure out pretty quickly. I'm guessing that means you're asking if there's something EXTRA you can do, no?

Best advice in this thread.

Do the things you do to keep your QPR up and don't get NPQ'ed at the 2/c physical and you've got a good shot. That should be fairly obvious. What other kinds of things were you thinking?

I was about as big a dirtbag mid as you can be and still graduate, and I got a Navy Air billet. Of course, that was in a different budget environment.

I am Class of 2010 and am a current SNA and here's my general advice:

1) Shoot to be in the top 1/3rd of your class overall.
2) Get A's on your PRTs.
3) Here's the part that I messed up on and would pass onto you: When the time comes, ace the ASTB. I took it the first time and got 5/5/5 which, at the time was just above the bare minimum for selecting Navy Pilot. I spoke with some O-4's and O-5's who were on the selection board who all told me it was a pass/fail criterion and that I shouldn't take it again... But, sure enough, they did change the system (surprise!) and the ASTB was weighed a lot more than it had in the past so my Aviation Order of Merit fell quite a bit, which made it so I had less dates to select to start flight school. I literally took it that one time with almost no prep, no studying, just to see how I could do. It was good enough, but looking back, I wish I could have done better just so that I had more options. (I ultimately got a spot only a month later than what I originally had wanted, but still...).
4) Talk to your company officer. Take positions - be a squad leader, do plebe summer detail, just take on roles that you can do. When I was squad leader, I had a classmate on the lax team who was a great guy but everyone thought he was a shitbag because he was never around due to all of his commitments. He couldn't take a position, but I told him to jump on every chance that our Company-O had for anyone to get something done, whether it was CFC coordinator, doing a quick financial brief or something, organizing her chits for her, etc. - our company-o always seemed to have a ton of random taskers. It made him look engaged and when I went to her to rank my squad I told her he was no. 1 in my squad. I also made sure I got to know him a ton and talked about how he reallllly wanted to select aviation, how he personally met with underclassmen on the lax team, and was the leader of making sure all the lax guys were in their team conditioning shape, etc. On top of all the face time he had with her and doing her taskers, he went from being ranked ~30th to the top 10 in our company. But definitely let it be known that you want to go aviation.
5) Go to some of the functions they offer - the briefs, etc. and get to know some of the officers - ask some questions, etc. Some of them will be on the board and they'll see you're engaged in aviation.

Thank you to everyone for all the help. This is exactly what I was hoping for. Thus far, I had asked around, spoken to a few officers, and looked into VT-NA (USNA's aviation training), but it seemed like there should be more that I could do than get good grades and attend some briefs regarding aviation. Now I know to focus on studying for the ASTB and generally get involved as well. Thank you all very much once again.

Your commissioning source staff (be it USNA in your case, or elsewhere for others) will be looking for leadership potential in you, as well as good grades. Good grades show that you can study and apply yourself in something. Aside from those two areas, nobody really cares that much if you are a private pilot, an airplane dork, know all the FAR's like the back of your hand, attend XYZ aviation club, etc. As long as you can do well in school, pass a flight physical, not be a shitbag, and show some aptitude on the ASTB, they know that you will learn the rest once you are in flight training.

To be a pilot: Don't get fried 4 times.

To be a FO: Don't fail classes/the PRT.

It's been 3 years since I graduated from the Academy, and this may sound bitter, but based on my experience there's no real rhyme or reason to why people get selected for a Pilot slot and why they don't. Let me please caveat this by saying I effing LOVE being an ECMO, and given the opportunity to transition to pilot I don't think I'd ever take it. Anyways, I was by no means at the top of my class, I graduated somewhere past halfway with decent PRT scores and several leadership positions including Battalion Staff. Pilot was my first choice and I ended up getting NFO. When I started my IFS training my instructor told me she had another student who was in my sister company that service selected Pilot. She told me that he didn't even want to be a pilot and that it was at the bottom of his Service Selection list. FWIW she also said that he wasn't even a good pilot. Just my $.02, but IMHO I would just hope that the Aviation Board Wheel of Fortune lands where you want it.

Navy Pilot - Above ~600 OOM and you should be good. Try not to get any major conduct offenses/any honor offenses, and pass the PRT. Civilian flight time helps, but won't make up completely for a horrendous academic record at the boat school.

NFO - Pass the ASTB and Graduate. (There was an NFO draft my grad year.)

I'll caveat this with saying I was 922/1006at USNA and got pilot.

When I graduated ('99), the FO-selects were all "got everything for pilot but the eyes" types. What's it like now in the era of eye-zapping?

Now that the Mark 1 Mod 1 (post PRK) eyeball is being accepted for pilot, the NFO's are generally folks who are qualified for aviation but have some factors in their record such as conduct offenses or bad CQPR that knocks them out of the box for pilot. In 2011 there were roughly twenty folks who put NFO first on their selection preference sheet.

Selection is done with an "Aviation Order of Merit" which is based on grades, PRT, ASTB, prior flight time, leadership positions, extracurricular activities involving aviation (VT-NA), company officer recommendation, and major. I don't know the weight of each factor in AOOM. After the AOOM list is put together the board goes straight down the list and gives pilot slots out first and NFO out second. (With the exception of those who put NFO first, who are almost guaranteed to get it).

For some reason, NFO has a bad reputation at the Academy, so they generally are short NFO's and need to 'draft' people...the anchor-man went NFO. I think the reason is just a lack of info on what NFO's do in the fleet. Most of what I know about the NFO pipeline came from airwarriors, and friends who selected NFO before I graduated.

Well, having a selection policy of "you're not academy-awesome enough to be a pilot, but we'll let you be a FO" probably isn't helping.

Agreed. A bunch of my peers and I thought that the aviation selection at USNA was pretty phuced up. This has proven true down at NASP where a lot of guys with a high aviation order of merit are failing out of API, or getting rolled due to test failure.

My opinion (which I realize is worth nothing) has been to treat it like Marine ground and have individuals select "Aviation" out of the Academy, and then sort out the Pilot/NFO thing at NASP with API performance. The added benefit is that people will get exposure to the NFO community as well, with TAW-6 being at NASP.

Put Pilot as your first choice, that is usually pretty important.

Does prior flight time really count for selection from the Academy? From the NROTC side, I haven't even been asked if I have time logged. A CFII has the same chance as someone who thinks you steer on the taxiway with the stick.

On the dream sheet, you should have the option to write a page about other factors you think should affect your selection. So, if you've got flight time, make sure you write about it on that page. I'm assuming they at least give those things a cursory glance for the high points (I hope). It may not be a major factor, but could serve as a tie breaker or something.

There probably needs to be some more FOs around school, if you want to get higher-quality people going for it. I had an O-6 Tomcat RIO teaching my firstie community practicum (do they still do that?). Awesome guy, big influence and one of the reasons I'm a FO. You won't get quality people selecting NFO if you insinuate that it's nothing a participant prize for those who aren't cool enough to be pilots. And as for this AOOM business - being a great Middie has fuck-all to do with your aviation potential.

There were some beer-at-the-club-level discussions among the instructors at P'cola about doing what Wingnut mentioned (make the pilot/FO split after API). I think it's probably a good idea. Make the selection the same way you do everything else in the Program; needs of the Navy, student load, grades, and dreamsheet, in that order.

I'm genuinely confused, since your post is contradictory. This isn't meant to be sarcastic or disrespectful, but doesn't AOOM/OOM come down to that same thing? The kids in NROTC and the Academy compete amongst their peers for the slot. What difference does it make if you move the split down to API? It's the same kids competing on the same criteria either way. The kids who did better get their first pick, vice the kids who did worse. What would the advantage be?

Because you're using their performance in the flight program (albeit it's just API) as the yardstick, not USNA nonsense. And it's their performance versus the rest of students in the Program (NSS), not versus their classmates at USNA. And you're letting kids at least get some exposure to instructors fresh from the Fleet, including NFOs, before filling out their dream sheet.

There were maybe three TACAIR type NFOs on the yard when I got "quality spread" (their term, not mine) into NFO during service selection. As someone with an OOM 400 spots better than kids who scored a pilot spot, it hurt. That being said, after talking to some of the WSO & ECMO ProProgs instructors I felt a lot better about it.

I'm convinced that my prior flight time is the only thing that saved my AOOM. My Academy record sucked as far as grades and conduct went, and lots of folks had better PT scores. What I had going for me was lots of company involvement, lots of leadership positions, involvement in VT-NA since plebe year, and ~150 hours of aerobatic and tailwheel flying time, as well as being an engineer.

Is there any reason they DON'T make the Pilot/FO split at API? Besides this being the military and the idea making sense?

Cuz we never have. No reason we couldn't, except we don't.