So you want to be a CAG (but can't)...

After reading this thread, I don't know if there are any Marine aviators that have the requisite "overland strike" experience that apparently Navy fixed wing operators have the lock on...

That could be considered a sort of catch-22. I don't know if there is a hard and fast instruction that says no helo guys as CAG but considering all the work that goes into understanding how the in's and out's of an airwing works just for shits and giggles doesn't seem to be that attractive to most.

Read the aviation major command board precept. A requirement for CVW command and is "significant career experience in carrier aviation operations." Note this is the same requirement for CVN command. "Significant career experience in carrier aviation operations" is defined later to be completion of a DH and/or CO tour in a squadron deploying aboard CVNs, specifically including CVW helicopter squadrons and excluding "expeditionary" VFA and VAQ squadrons.

Also not that other major commands are specifically limited to VAW/VAQ/VFA.

For comparison, the current MCMRON SEVEN commadore is a HSC pilot who had no prior experience in MIW. He has command of four ships and is expected to be the day to day MIW expert in theater. Proof that at the O-6 command level, the navy is looking for well rounded leaders.

I guess we'll just disagree. I know of a couple of HS skippers who lobbied pretty hard to be considered for CAG. In fact, one actaully sent a letter saying that if he didn't screen for CAG, he would retire.
The Navy called his bluff and he did retire...

I think many of the HS (now CVW-HSC) would be VERY interested in seeing a helo pilot become a CAG. While I don't feel a helo guy is the right fit for the job, I was in the minority in many of the discussions held with my squadron mates.

This was a special circumstance, as the original officer selected was an MCM guy.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding

And we have a winner.

A directive from an 3 star to the Captians on the Aviation Command Screaning Board: There is no Big Navy guidance that helo bubas are excluded for CVW command.

Instead, the members have consistinatly excluded them.

Show me an instruction. Until it is written down it it is just people protecting thier turf.

Turns out my community does not regularly send people TDY to 'hook. I would love to go. I will go as soon as I get a chance.

The only flag panel I have been to was a NHA conference when I was in the RAG. I did not make any comments. I have been deployed /on boat det for the last two and the next NHA conference. The next one I go to. I will ask the question.

The question is regularly asked at NHA panels, which regularly feature dudes that pay lip service to the idea of a helo CAG. Been hearing about it coming "any year now" for several years.

So what you are saying is Big Navy Aviation leadership will tell me to my face that a helo guy will get CAG soon but will actively block it if it comes up. That's fucked up!

I see this as along the sames line as the Air Force recently had only fighter COS until Sect. Gates wanted a non-fighter dude.

Yep. Just like two dozen other things that are important to other guys. I once had a DH tell me "life's tough, get over it or get a helmet".

That's the rub. If the admirals had said "ain't gonna happen," I could have bitched and moaned about a disagreement, but that fact that they told me it was going to happen yet prevent it is fucked up. CNAF is always a jet guy after all.

It is too easy to ask the question "when will as help pilot become CAG" because it is too easy to answer soon. I believe the better question is "Will we have a helo or female CAG first?" That forces them to choose between two specific groups as opposed to general answers. Last year I gave that specific question to my skipper to submit for people who were unable to make it to NHA. I never heard anything further.

from an old out of looper,

have there been a lot of lady cags?
also, how close is one to being a carrier skipper?

So then EVERY helo pilot CO has been lesser the quality than EVERY person selected for CAG for the last 20+ years?

That is nowhere near a logical as the Navy leadership deciding that Helo guys are not eligible for CAG.

Since I know of a bunch of HS bubbas that went on to wear a star and there are a bunch of CAGs that didn't get a star, I find it difficult that swallow that every helo pilot was not competative for CAG yet some were still selected for flag.

I got my info that "Navy Leadership" decided that helo pilots did not need to select CAG to remain competitive for Flag from sitting in on a phone call between my old RAG skipper and a Wing Commodore.
The two officers were involved with the discussions with CNAP, so I will trust what they said as the truth.

CAPT Joyner is on her way to being the first. Currently Deputy of CVW-3.

http://www.public.navy.mil/AIRFOR/CVW3/Pages/deputybio.aspx

I have never seen anyone higher than an O-4 ask a question of a flag panel, probably because it's tough to make a good name out of asking the "tough" questions but easy to torpedo your rep.

How long ago did the USN start making P-3 TACCO O-6s big deck LHD Skippers and how well has this worked out in the past?

From the stories, Hook is definitely more freewheeling than NHA, which a few years ago was conducted entirely in khakis (I wish I was kidding) and is always held in either Jax, Norfolk or SD, meaning that all the squadrons from that location that show up are still working. So yeah, there's definitely a "work" vibe to it all.

I had one as CO in '01.

Yeah that's how the VP reunion is too, although we aren't even toolish enough to wear khakis. They just invented the whole Maritime Patrol Association thing to try to be on par with Tailhook. I'll join when we start having conventions in Vegas.