Sidearms for Naval Aviators

[rotorhead1871]

Verboten - puts the whole concept of legitimate use of force, in a big picture at risk. No, good order and discipline means no personal weapons.

defending ones self is surely a legitimate use of force...who has trouble with that concept??

 

[phrogdriver]

You shouldn't need a personal weapon. In a real military service, you'd be allowed to carry rounds in your issued weapon as intended.

Jeebus. If you saw the mental defectives allowed to carry weapons with chambered rounds in our police forces...

 

[nittany03]

defending ones self is surely a legitimate use of force...who has trouble with that concept??

The Hague Convention, and having to waste time policing whether LTJG Jesse Joe Jim Bob's custom .454 Casull and his box of handloaded semi-wadcutters are legal under the Law of Armed Conflict.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Let's be honest, if we allow personal weapons and ammo, you're going to have a specific group of guys that will hand-load some really crazy shit, like extra-hot rounds, JB welding primers into hollow points, and the like, all in the name of "killing bad guys". I could see it very quickly getting out of control and turned off. That said, factory hollow points would be nice, and a case can (and has) been made for them being less cruel and unusual than FMJ rounds. Police carry them to use for protection against domestic threats. 'Nuff said. Yeah, yeah I know... Hague, Geneva, et. al.

So to keep in line with all the treaties, I'm fine with the M-11. Just "allow" me to load the damn thing when I fly into combat. It might just be a feel good thing and not mean jack squat, but my pistol ain't loaded when I eject, WTF is the point of having the damn thing?

 

[phrogdriver]

Let's be honest, if we allow personal weapons and ammo, you're going to have a specific group of guys that will hand-load some really crazy shit, like extra-hot rounds, JB welding primers into hollow points, and the like, all in the name of "killing bad guys". I could see it very quickly getting out of control and turned off. That said, factory hollow points would be nice, and a case can (and has) been made for them being less cruel and unusual than FMJ rounds. Police carry them to use for protection against domestic threats. 'Nuff said. Yeah, yeah I know... Hague, Geneva, et. al.

So to keep in line with all the treaties, I'm fine with the M-11. Just "allow" me to load the damn thing when I fly into combat. It might just be a feel good thing and not mean jack squat, but my pistol ain't loaded when I eject, WTF is the point of having the damn thing?

You mean like this mental defective?

 

[Pugs]

False, for at least the last 30 years.

I'm old but not that old. Desert Storm the Naval Air sidearm was crap. Our issued weapon was a 5 shot .38 S&W snubbie. The vast majority of us carried our own. I carried a Browning Hi-Power, my pilot carried a Glock 9 and the other two carried the issue weapon. Of course our new jg wouldn't load it because "loaded guns are dangerous". ( Md raised USNA).

There are rules and there is reality. My last 5 deployments I carried the M11 and found no need to replace it.

 

[Jim123]

 

[ChuckMK23]

I'm old but not that old. Desert Storm the Naval Air sidearm was crap. Our issued weapon was a 5 shot .38 S&W snubbie. The vast majority of us carried our own. I carried a Browning Hi-Power, my pilot carried a Glock 9 and the other two carried the issue weapon. Of course our new jg wouldn't load it because "loaded guns are dangerous". ( Md raised USNA).

There are rules and there is reality. My last 5 deployments I carried the M11 and found no need to replace it.

Our det actually had 1911's in DS - the M1911 was standard TOE for the nuke transhipment mission for HC.

On America - I had a number of classmates in CVW-1 and their CAG sponsored personal weapon procurements were well known - S&W and Glock semi Autos....

 

[ChuckMK23]

You mean like this mental defective?

Or this guy?

 

[ChuckMK23]

There is a mindset about being in combat - even this junior AF life support tech is wearing his M9, round chambered.

Admire the professionalism of the Life Support Techs as well as the condition and readiness of aircrew flight gear displayed!

 

[joe dirt]

Watching Cobras FARPing in southern Iraq in 2003 I saw a pilot with dual chromed out revolvers in a Miami Vice style holster. Never spoke to the man, but he was my hero.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Or this guy?

Seems like the brass must be doing a number on the windscreen

 

[sevenhelmet]

I'm old but not that old. Desert Storm the Naval Air sidearm was crap. Our issued weapon was a 5 shot .38 S&W snubbie. The vast majority of us carried our own. I carried a Browning Hi-Power, my pilot carried a Glock 9 and the other two carried the issue weapon. Of course our new jg wouldn't load it because "loaded guns are dangerous". ( Md raised USNA).

There are rules and there is reality. My last 5 deployments I carried the M11 and found no need to replace it.

Wow. That's a clear-cut use case for a "shut-the-fuck-up-new-guy" if I ever heard one! "Guns are dangerous"? You're in a freaking combat zone...

So why can't we load pistols? I blame you guys for not putting the new guy in his place early. Homeboy is probably an admiral now.

 

[samb]

Seems like the brass must be doing a number on the windscreen

The brass never does much to the windscreen, but in order to avoid that stuff rattling around under the pedals we always did our best to eject it outside the cockpit. A simple position change of the rifle takes care of that.

Shooting the M4 is an ATM task in the OH-58D that we trained on during most stateside gunneries and almost every single test fire downrange. We got very good at shooting out the door.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Looks like in addition to the Marine Corps moving from M9 to the MHS, Navy is on board as well with aircrew M11's

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/05/02/us-navy-air-force-order-the-xm18-compact-mhs