Re-select E2/C2 out of primary again for FY13 studs?

[MIDNJAC]

I do get what Kbay and others said, and I guess maybe I should have worded what I said more carefully. My point is that all getting a 50+ NSS in primary tells the "system" is that 1) a guy is at least average, if not better and probably picks things up okay, and 2) meets the CNATRA defined minimums for Tailhook. I think we probably can agree on that much?

So what I'm saying is that how well a guy does in primary is sort of irrelevant to whether they are a good fit for jets or not. Throw them in a T-45, let them demonstrate that they can still perform in that environment, and I'd say that is a better indicator of whether a student is cut out of a specific community. And even then, it is a little stretch. But it is probably the best indicator the TRACOM has at its disposal.

Also, WRT the original subject, I also can see what CNATRA and the VAW/VRC communities are trying to do with this. Quality spread and morale had to have taken a hit with Tailhook. While I think the Tailhook process might be good for VFA, this process might be better for big wings and maybe even everyone. VFA RAGs can still attrite people if the TRACOM drops the ball.

 

[Gatordev]

Not a fact at all actually. The billeting for VTs favors helo guys. Especially more recently. With rotors becoming a larger part of the navy pilot pool their share of orders out of millington has gone up. Right now it's decently difficult to get VT orders from P-3/P-8 land.

That's a fairly recent development. Historically (as in the last 7+ years), there were almost no, then a few helo spots. The majority of Navy guys were P-3 dudes, in large part due to the community having some issues at the time as well as having so many bodies within the community. While I was there, there were four Navy helo guys including the XO. That later grew to 6 or 7 per squadron (out of about 30) by the time I was leaving.

It's good to hear they're letting a few more in, though. Too many of any one particular community in one service has it's negatives.

 

[Gatordev]

When I went through it was 50/50 P-3/chopper dudes on the Navy, and 100% chopper dudes on the green side.

The real oddity was the rare jet (1) guy who was there due to back issues.

The Marines addressed that while I was there. They realized that "no one" with a motivated haircut was interested in jets, post-OEF/OIF, so they started sending jet dudes to Primary to help with recruiting. I think it was working, as they were getting established in the squadrons as I was leaving. I believe the plan was each VT would get 6 or so (or maybe that was per Wing), which is a sizable number when you figure all the helo guys that are in the Marines and need billets.

Meanwhile the Navy continues it's overall perspective that going to the TRACOM is one step below getting herpes. I think their logic is that, at least with herpes, you have a good story to tell.

 

[Swanee]

The Marines addressed that while I was there. They realized that "no one" with a motivated haircut was interested in jets, post-OEF/OIF, so they started sending jet dudes to Primary to help with recruiting. I think it was working, as they were getting established in the squadrons as I was leaving. I believe the plan was each VT would get 6 or so (or maybe that was per Wing), which is a sizable number when you figure all the helo guys that are in the Marines and need billets.

Meanwhile the Navy continues it's overall perspective that going to the TRACOM is one step below getting herpes. I think their logic is that, at least with herpes, you have a good story to tell.

Interesting... Now that I think about, when I was in VT-2 we had no Navy jet guys, but we had 2 Harrier (1 reserve, 1 active) and 3 Hornet IPs. They didn't seem to be really happy to be flying the turbo-wiener but they did a pretty good job of counteracting the typical anti-jet movement that most people experience while in primary. Seriously, there were certain IPs that you didn't let know you wanted to fly jets- they would almost berate you because of it. Which is the complete wrong attitude for an IP to have. I had one IP tell me, " I'm here to help you meet your goals. Completing primary is one, wings is two and getting what you want is number three."

 

[KBayDog]

I briefed, finished a work out, and cancelled by 815 this morning.

In other words, Ops Normal at NSE

@HD: Anecdotal evidence, but it seems that they're training to fly the AV-6B at NSE these days, what with all the Lawn Dart patches I see walking around.

 

[Gatordev]

Interesting... Now that I think about, when I was in VT-2 we had no Navy jet guys, but we had 2 Harrier (1 reserve, 1 active) and 3 Hornet IPs. They didn't seem to be really happy to be flying the turbo-wiener but they did a pretty good job of counteracting the typical anti-jet movement that most people experience while in primary. Seriously, there were certain IPs that you didn't let know you wanted to fly jets- they would almost berate you because of it. Which is the complete wrong attitude for an IP to have. I had one IP tell me, " I'm here to help you meet your goals. Completing primary is
one, wings is two and getting what you want is number three."

I never really encountered the attitude, both as a stud and as an IP, but plenty here say they did, which is unfortunate. A lot of the guys they grabbed were Hornet guys, but I think that was, in part, due to numbers.

There's a bunch of Harrier guys teaching primary? I only knew one (besides Vapor) and he was geo located because his wife was a nurse.

Whatever. Looks like a good time, I always thought.

We had one at -6 while I was there (and several years after...once he went CG). I can't remember his callsign at the moment (I blame booze), but he was a cheerleader at USNA, if that helps.

 

[PropAddict]

They didn't seem to be really happy to be flying the turbo-wiener but they did a pretty good job of counteracting the typical anti-jet movement that most people experience while in primary. Seriously, there were certain IPs that you didn't let know you wanted to fly jets- they would almost berate you because of it.

I did not encounter this at all. And I thought the P-3 guys were the best about encouraging people NOT to go P-3s. A close second were the E-6 guys, though.

Helo guys were 50/50 between guys who wished they had gone jets and guys who just loved helos. I don't really remember any of them being hostile to jet hopefuls, though.

 

[Erin M.]

There's a bunch of Harrier guys teaching primary? I only knew one (besides Vapor) and he was geo located because his wife was a nurse.

Whatever. Looks like a good time, I always thought.

There were definitely a lot of Harrier guys there when I was going through. My squadron alone had at least 3 when I started (2 are gone now, retired/moved to the FITU). There were a few in VT-2 as well, per the students that I knew from VT-2. There were also many other jet guys in my squadron, a handful of Hornet guys and a Prowler driver. Every single jet guy that I met in primary was a Marine. I heard that VT-3 had a few Air Force pointy-nose types, but I don't really know much about that squadron.

 

[fc2spyguy]

Oh the irony, if you were to do that.

There are people competing for Rs?

 

[jtmedli]

There were definitely a lot of Harrier guys there when I was going through. My squadron alone had at least 3 when I started (2 are gone now, retired/moved to the FITU). There were a few in VT-2 as well, per the students that I knew from VT-2. There were also many other jet guys in my squadron, a handful of Hornet guys and a Prowler driver. Every single jet guy that I met in primary was a Marine. I heard that VT-3 had a few Air Force pointy-nose types, but I don't really know much about that squadron.

The XO when I left was a F-15 guy. Pretty good guy also.

 

[aodell]

The XO when I left was a F-15 guy. Pretty good guy also.

Yeah, he's now the CO. There's also an AF O-4 who was a 15 guy, and a couple of Marine 18 guys. I believe a 3rd was about to check in when I left a couple of months ago.

 

[Napper]

Any updates on this? I bumped into a newly winged NA who was selected E2C2 and his impression was that selection should be moving to Primary, perhaps sooner than a new stud could make it through tailhook intermediate. Anyone know where this is in the works?

 

[zippy]

Any updates on this? I bumped into a newly winged NA who was selected E2C2 and his impression was that selection should be moving to Primary, perhaps sooner than a new stud could make it through tailhook intermediate. Anyone know where this is in the works?

Was supposed to have been implimented this past summer. Probably got delayed due to budget constraints and everyone trying to add inputs to the process for FITREP/ EOT award bullets.

 

[Planeform]

I'm in the FRS for CODs and the new guys showing up (as of this week) are still selecting the way I did; i.e. it hasn't changed yet but people keep talking about it being in the works. I'm sure it will still take a while. I've heard that if E2/C2 wasn't on the table for your primary selection you'll be up for selection the same way it's been.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Yeah I posted my update on a different thread, didn't realize this one existed, but when we checked into our squadron a couple weeks ago, the CO told us that the pipeline would be split into jets and E-2/C-2 by the time we were up for selection. Said they were putting the finishing touches on the revised syllabus or something like that. I'm expecting there's still a chance we won't have the split pipeline when we select, it looks like this has been in the works for a while now.