Questions from a Potential Recruit

Hello all!

I'm a 23 year old civilian who is considering enlisting in the Navy. There are many attractive features to Naval service, but one of the primary ones for me is the education benefits available. Needless to say, the STA-21 program seems too good to be true! My recruiter mentioned it, but was unable to give me many details, so I'm doing some research on my own.

I understand that the program is pretty competative, but I think that with some hard work I can make myself an attractive candidate for selection. I got a 1460 on the SAT, and have some college under my belt, but my GPA was pretty abysmal. I plan to take college courses again starting in the upcoming Winter semester, and blow them away. However, I'm still concerned that my previously subpar academic career will reflect too strongly for me to hope to be selected for this program. Could any of you tell me how heavily weighted previous academic experience is in considering candidates? Is the GPA the only thing considered, or would the entire transcript be looked at? I'm positive that I have gained the motivation necessary to reverse my earlier academic failures, and I wonder what the best way to prove that would be?

I am also curious how soon after enlisting one can reasonably expect to apply for the STA program. I am under the impression that there is no minimum time-in-service, or enlisted rank to apply, but I'm sure that's not the whole story. Ideally I'd like to apply ASAP after 'A' school, and I'd love to get some idea of how soon that would be. Are more experienced persons given preference over those new to the service? I can certainly understand this, if it is the case, but would like to know what the specifics of the selection process look like, so that I could begin planning for my application before even enlisting.

I am very interested in Naval service, but not quite prepared to take the leap. This program won't make or break my decision to enter, but it's certainly a strong selling point! I hope you folks can give me a better idea of what is entailed in the application process, and point me in the right direction to begin preparing ahead of time.

Sta-21

I've been in 6yrs now and was picked up for STA-21 for FY-03. And yes
STA-21 is almost to good to be true. I'm getting paid E-6 with tuition and books covered and I'm accruing time in service even as I write this. I was basically in your situation. The whole reason I enlisted was because I was just spinning my wheels in college and didn't really know what I wanted to do.
I had approx 90hrs of college credit with about a 2.0 GPA but I did have a pretty good SAT score of 1360. Most importantly my command liked me and gave me glowing recommedations. So basically with SAT scores like yours as long as you work hard and play the game you will get gain command support you should be a shoe in. I know some people are getting picked up straight out of A school so hit the ground running and START PUTTING YOUR PACKAGE TOGETHER EARLY (take the SATs now to get a current score).
Visit the following site if you haven't already. Good luck
https://www.sta-21.navy.mil/

Thanks for your response! Sounds promising!

I imagine it would be best to plan to spend some time at my first duty station before applying, if only so that I'd have time to get to know my superiors? How are people chosen directly from A-School, if they've never had the chance to impress anyone? Or can one's A-School CO reccomend one for the program?

Thanks again,
Patrick

Like the first person that responded, I am a E-6 in the STA-21 program. I was picked up in the first selection year of the program. I would say that if you don't submit your application from your A school command, at the very least try to get a letter of recomendation forn your CO before you leave. Your A school CO can endorse your package to the board. If you transfer prior to submiting your application go ahead and get a letter of recomendation, this will show continunity from command to command or CO to CO.

In reference to grades, I went to college before enlisting and had a 1.30 GPA and lower SAT scores than yourself, but consistent superior performance while on active duty helped me show that I was just too young in college to grab a better meaning to good grades.

Best of luck.

Thanks for your advice and help, folks!

I went to MEPS yesterday, and signed into DEP as an HM, with a ship date in July. I asked my recruiter about the STA-21 program, and he stated that it's even possible to apply while still in DEP, and possibly enter the program directly from initial training. Do any of you have any info on that?

Thanks again,
Patrick

you want some advice.....DON'T ENLIST!!! If you have half a brain, finish college, and if you're still interested in the navy, go OCS or DIO (direct input officer). Your chances of making it that way are far greater than enlisting first and then hoping to get picked up for sta-21. If you have any idea of what the navy is like, you will heed my words of advice. Being in college is so much better than the navy. If money is a concern, or direction for that matter, join your local NROTC. That way, you get college paid for (or partially paid for) and you can still get the direction that experienced navy JO's and senior officers have to offer. don't blow it man! Sorry if i sound jaded, but i'm waiting for the fy05 results to come out now, and all i can tell you is that 15 hour days doesn't make for an easy life! Good luck, and think about what you do before you take the leap!

oh yeah, you can get out of DEP if you want, you can also get out of the navy before you've been for 6 months on a "failure to adapt".... don't let anyone make a sucker out of you, especially your recuiter. They lie for a living, don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Find out answers to your questions on this forum or in writing somewhere else.

I will second jmurty19. Where I am not nearly as bitter as he is, my 8 years enlisted have been great...BUT if I had to do it all over again I would have gotten my ducks in a row and went to college then OCS. I was in need of direction and I got it in the Navy. Just remember this (if you do decide to still enlist)...Choose your rate, choose your fate...I am a merged FC (used to be a DS). My job has been very fulfilling since day one. Just remember that from my vantage point it really does seem like an easier feat to become an officer from the civilian ranks than does it from the enlisted ranks. This is my 3rd package in 3 years and have continued to play the waiting game. So really the call is yours. I like being enlisted because of my job, but I want to be commissioned.

Wow that's bitter, but not entirely untrue. While it is much more beneficial to be in the Navy as a commissioned officer, the enlisted life has much to offer as well. My advice is the same as their's though, to do your best to get through college and then if you're still interested in the Navy, go through a commissioning program.

Sorry about the "bitterness", but just trying to give some good advice. I've seen too many extremely intelligent people in my time in the navy get jaded by being enlisted, especially in the nuke pipeline. Anyway, don't get me wrong, I most definately would have joined the navy no matter what, but I just wish I had stuck it out in college instead of taking the easy road of a guaranteed job. Also, I HATE recruiters. I have yet to come across a single person in the navy who was not lied to their recruiter.

I agree totally with you. Although I haven't been in that long (only about 3 1/2 years) I too have seen quite a few in the same situation (even just 1 is too many). It is a shame. I don't share quite the same view on recruiters though. I have heard the horror stories and some of the more ridiculous promises. My recruiter never really "lied" to me, he just didn't tell me everything I probably should have known. Either way, joining was probably the best thing for me at the time. But overall yes, recruiters are there to lie. Otherwise who would enlist in any of the branches?

The dig-its!!!

Wow, thanks for such honest responses!

At the moment I'm preparing to go back to school full time starting in the Spring semester. My ship date isn't until late July. The way I've figured it so far this gives me plenty of time to mull the whole thing over. I'll finish out another semester of college, and see where my motivation stands before I have to ship out. I intend to do a lot better this time through, and once I get in I'll try applying for STA-21, but my heart isn't really set on it. I guess I'm more of a dabbler when it comes to Navy life: I want to experience military service, and fulfill what I feel to be an obligation to my country, but at the moment I don't really expect to end up as a careerist. Maybe that will change once I get in. Maybe not. Anyhow, I'm signed up for the National Call to Service program, so my initial active obligation is only about 2 years. If I make STA-21 in that period then I'll gladly serve additional time. If not, well, if I like the Navy I'll reenlist, and try again, and if I don't I'll get out in a fairly short period.

JMurty: I know DEP isn't binding(well, it is, but it's not enforced), but thanks for making sure. I don't like the idea of dropping out of DEP, and would rather not do it; it seems like a sort of underhanded tactic. But if it's in both my own and the service's best interest I'd keep the option open. Maybe I get back into school and like it well enough that I'd rather take the route you kind folks have suggested: finish up and apply for OCS. If I thought I could offer better service that way I'd think about it.

But for now I'll stick with it. It's good motivation for me, and I'm looking forward to my time in, whether as officer or enlisted.

And, yeah, I'm keeping an eye on my recruiter, and double-checking everything he says. . .

Which is why I came on here to ask my last question: "I asked my recruiter about the STA-21 program, and he stated that it's even possible to apply while still in DEP, and possibly enter the program directly from initial training. Do any of you have any info on that?"

So, that's bunk, right? I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that it's possible to apply before finishing boot camp.

Thank you all!
Patrick

P Condon:
It's good knowing that you were doing bad and that you want to do better now. As far as enlisting goes, I entered in late 99 and waited for a few years before dropping a package. Life was rough at some point but really good at others. Being enlisted teaches you a LOT about how things get done on the deck plate level. I would trade my enlisted time for anything. It helped me to grow up and become a better person and it helps give you skills that might help you with school in the long run. As far as sticking it out in college I'm with Webmaster on this, KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING YOURSELF INTO!!! One way or the other make it your decision so that you have nobody else to blame when things go good or bad. Also, my 2 cents, find out what you want to do as an officer and choose a rate that is in that field (for example: Sub Officer go Nuke, Pilot or NFO go NAC on the aircraft you like, SWO be a boatswainsmate or operations specialist). Go look at ALL the jobs before you lock yourself into it. Most of all, GOOD LUCK!

I've got to say; you folks have been a lot more candid and helpful than most of the other boards I've asked about enlistment on!

There's a lot here to digest, but I'll answer a few points people have made:

Yes, I am interested in serving even if it is not as an officer. If I end up fulfilling my entire time in as an enlisted man that's fine with me. I am however interested in serving as an officer for several reasons:

The pay, benefits, prestige, etc.(obviously!)

The chance to exercise what I feel to be a talent for leadership, both for my own benefit, and for the benefit of the Navy and the United States.

The opportunity to further my education through the STA-21 program.

Just to clarify something: I'm not particularly interested in the Pilot program. Don't get me wrong; I've got immense respect for pilots, and I'm sure the training and challenges of the job are fascinating! But it's not a personal goal of mine to become a pilot. I'm asking on this board because you guys came up in a google search for "STA-21"

I'm currently in DEP as an HM, a rate I chose after much research and speculation. It strikes me as one of the more flexible rates in the Navy, with the opportunity to work just about anywhere the Navy or Marine Corps goes.
The breadth of duties associated with the rate is wide and varied. It also offers a more tangible feeling of helping out fellow servicemen than I imagine some other jobs might: I know that the even the guy doing paperwork, or driving a truck is important in a team effort, but personally I'd rather be the guy patching up injuries than the guy making sure *that guy* has enough bandages. . . I feel I've made a good choice for myself when it comes to enlisted jobs.

However I'm still not entirely sure in what capacity I'd best fit into the officer's ranks. There doesn't seem to be nearly as much info available on the duties of the various officer lines. I'm also somewhat limited by my aspirations for later in life, none of which really involves a technical degree. That being the case, while I feel that I would be at my best as an officer I am not sure how I can integrate my desires with the needs of the Navy in order to serve as one. I don't have the single goal of being a pilot, or a nuclear officer(or whatever) to drive for, so I'm curious what you guys think someone with an interest in teaching or law can best do as a Naval officer to suit the needs of the Navy, while furthering his professional goals?

Thanks,
Patrick

There is a job called DIO (direct input officer). You teach nuclear power for the second phase of Nuke training. If you act soon they'll help pay for and pay you a lot of money. Then you serve a four year tour and you have the option to transfer to something else. Since it is a day job you could probably take a few night courses and work towards getting your law degree then you could be a JAG officer or after your DIO tour get out and do law school full time using your GI Bill. These are a few of the options that are not traditional so they don't get a lot of publicity.

How close are you to a Navy base? It is a long shot but you might be able to get an appointment with the Command Career Counsellor or try calling a base Public Affairs Officer and get a phone appointment. Then you can ask all the crazy and interesting questions that you want in real time. It's just an idea but check it out. The CCC's are specially trained on all the E to O type jobs.

If you like HM you would probably like the nurse option. I thought about it because the medical field runs in my family, but decided on pilot. If you like helping people and taking care of them being a nurse would help the navy.

I'm in a similar situation, except I already have my degree and therefore am not eligible for STA21. I graduated in August with a BSEE and a low (2.34) GPA from UT. I've spoken to several different recruiters and can't get a straight answer as to what I have to do to overcome my low GPA and earn a commission (preferably SWO or Nuke-sub if possible).

The first recruiter I spoke to was an officer recruiter who told me my only chance at an OCS spot was to go back to school and get a second bachelor's degree and have an excellent GPA (3.7+). So my first option is to work and go to school nights and get a degree in something like business management or economics at UTA or St. Edward's or someplace like that.

Enlisted recruiters that I have spoken to including an officer at the recruiting district hq have told me that I will most definitely qualify to enlist as a Nuke ET. From the enlisted ranks, the officer told me that if I kick ass at A school and Nuke school, submit an application package every time I am eligible, and do well in the fleet, he would be surprised if I didn't get picked up for OCS before 3yrs after boot camp. He said since I already have my engineering degree, the chances of me not getting accepted to OCS before my 6th year are slim to none. He also said that the idea of getting a second degree to improve my grades would be a waste of my time, and would not improve my prospects for applying to OCS as a civilian, the best way was to go the enlisted route.

Who should I believe? Should I work and go to night school and apply as a civilian in a few years, or should I enlist (and make a fraction of what I'm being offered as an EE) and take the chance that I won't get a commission at all? Obviously the enlisted recruiter is trying to fill his quota, but I still don't know who to believe, or if my chances are slim to none either way.

I am now very dedicated to earning a commission in the Navy and will do whatever it takes to get there. Any opinions as to how to get there, or is it a pipe dream?

I know Nuke world is hurting for manning so I am personally surprised they haven't picked you up as a Nuke officer (sub or surface). You should apply at least twice as an officer before you try enlisted at all. Just be prepared to explain why you would do better in the Nuke pipeline than yu did in college and why your GPA does not reflect your ability and so on.

That's my .02 for what it is worth.

Going nuke is a good way to eventually become an officer, but really make sure your heart is in it before you go this path. The pipeline isn't easy, even if you have a degree. There may be 15 ways to answer a physics problem, but the "Navy way" is the only right answer. There were more than a few guys in my hubby's classes who had problems grasping that. Out of my hubby's A school class, there were very few who were right out of high school, most had a couple years of college. I can remember a few who already had their bachelor's degrees. And I know for sure that one of those people who had her BS flunked out of the pipline in glorious fashion (she's my best friend, lol).
Having said that, my hubby did great through the pipeline (no mandatory study hours in Power School, woohoo!). He was 3rd in his A school class, 3rd or 4th in his Power School class (#2 mechanic) and was #1 on his boat in Prototype. He was the asst class leader in A school, and class leader in Power School. He was picked up as a staff pick-up after Prototype, and then got selected for STA on his first try. So, yeah, the Navy has been a good fit for him, and great for our family. The key to success here is to have your priorities in order, and know what you want.
Alright, I've been up for hours wil my youngest, and I see that the sleep deprivation has lead me to ramble...In short- if you can focus on what you want and will work hard, getting into OCS via the enlisted nuke route should be within your grasp.

From personal experience with guys in situations similar to yours, I'll tell you what I know. First off, a degree in music education or english is definitely not going to help you (you don't have to worry about that since you have a technical degree). Second, I know of quite a few guys who already had a bachelors before coming in or finished them while in the nuclear pipeline and most of them did put in for OCS. No one who put in for nuke with a degree like english was accepted. So getting a second degree in business management will probably not help. I had two friends in your EXACT situation, pretty poor college grades, but outstanding grades through the pipeline and neither of them was accepted. So it is pretty hard mainly because of the GPA, although not impossible. I also met some officers that came through OCS with pretty low GPAs. The good thing about OCS is that the board convenes very often (i.e. more than once a year) so you would have many chances to apply. Another good thing is that if you did enlist and go nuke and did well in the schools, then you could put in pretty good-looking packages while you're being trained (and the training commands for nukes have excellent command career counselors who will do everything to help you put in a good officer package). Ultimately the choice is up to you, but prior to enlisting (especially as a nuke because the recruiter probably knows nothing about the nuke field but only gets more points for recruiting more nukes and will tell you anything you want to hear), you should be absolutely sure that is what you want just in case you don't get accepted to OCS. And by the way, the slim chance of not being accepted in your first six years is a pretty big exaggeration.

For the record, El Cid's avatar is awesome!