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Private pilot license with military hours?

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
#32
Wait until you have 1000+ hours in helos... Then you'll scare the CFI on your checkout because you keep wanting to pull the nose back and hit 0/0 on landing.
That will probably be just around the time I start getting used to using pitch attitude for airspeed and power for climb.

Makes perfect sense in military flying though, right? Every time you get comfortable and proficient in a T/M/S, you change. :D:D

Although to be fair, if I could flare a Cessna enough to tail-slide it to a 0/0, I should get an air-medal along with my ambulance ride to a trauma 1 medical center.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#33
I'd like to do this at some point. Go to an FBO, and rent a plane and a CFI for an "intro" or "sightseeing flight" giving the info that I have "some" prior experience, and see if they can tell. Worst case I suck and they don't know. Best case, a funny joke. :D
Probably not as funny as you'd think. I've been getting time in an Arrow as of late (to hit the insurance mins) and on one flight I descended at 1000'/min. I was told "no suicidal descent rates." Kind of amusing to hear, but hey, he's the instructor for the hop, not me, so I dutifully slowed down the descent. This kind of leads me to your next part...

(in all seriousness, if you can't fly the shit out of a C172 as a Naval Aviator, I'd be surprised).
This is exactly why Naval Aviators get in trouble, be it a C-172, T-34, or whatever. You still have to respect the airplane, no matter how basic it may be.

Wait until you have 1000+ hours in helos... Then you'll scare the CFI on your checkout because you keep wanting to pull the nose back and hit 0/0 on landing.
Exactly. And if not the CFI, then the IP if you go through a FW syllabus.
 

vick

Esoteric single-engine jet specialist
pilot
None
#34
You guys are making this way too complicated. If you don't already have any civilian tickets before you start flight school just shelve the idea until you're winged. Then take your mil comp tests, get the tickets, and then go get checked out to fly whatever it is you want to fly. While you're in flight school just study hard and spend the money you would have spent on 100LL on booze and chasing tail, as god intended. The civilian stuff'll come in due time.
 

ryan1234

Active Member
#35
Probably not as funny as you'd think. I've been getting time in an Arrow as of late (to hit the insurance mins) and on one flight I descended at 1000'/min. I was told "no suicidal descent rates." Kind of amusing to hear, but hey, he's the instructor for the hop, not me, so I dutifully slowed down the descent. This kind of leads me to your next part...



This is exactly why Naval Aviators get in trouble, be it a C-172, T-34, or whatever. You still have to respect the airplane, no matter how basic it may be.



Exactly. And if not the CFI, then the IP if you go through a FW syllabus.
Guys that do power-off 180s in Arrows around here always come screaming down. I don't know what the power-off glide is, but it has to be really fast.. and a pretty fast descent rate.. 1000+ft/min doesn't sound too far off.

One thing I've noticed (and come to appreciate) about all mil-pilots who get check-outs at our place, is that well...most... have a genuine eagerness to learn the particular aircraft really well. The light twins seem to give them the most trouble though at first... I mean in florida on a hot, humid summer day if you lose an engine, there may not be any positive climb rate at even sea-level. That seems to suprise them the most.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#36
Guys that do power-off 180s in Arrows around here always come screaming down. I don't know what the power-off glide is, but it has to be really fast.. and a pretty fast descent rate.. 1000+ft/min doesn't sound too far off.
I think it's 87-ish knots for glide, but I may be off on that. It's been a month since I've flown one and I still haven't taken their closed book test. In the regular pattern, I would find it hard to get the airspeed off and when doing a power loss approach, it seemed similar to a T-34 in profile, but not as fast an approach. I would doubt 1000'/min, but I don't remember looking at the VSI.

The T-34 is 600-800'/min when feathered and it comes in fast (100 knots) off the abeam, so that's why I'm saying the Arrow is no faster to fall and it's evenl going slower. Any way, that's my very low time perception of the plane.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
#38
This is exactly why Naval Aviators get in trouble, be it a C-172, T-34, or whatever. You still have to respect the airplane, no matter how basic it may be.
You're absolutely right. I didn't, by any means, mean that I'd go to some FBO, "hot dog" it, and sign autographs afterward for all the lowly CFIs. I just meant that CFI's generally have expectations for a new pilot with limited experience, and it'd be funny to have them coach and demo me through a manuever, and then I'd complete the maneuver at a much higher level of proficiency than they expected. It'd be fun to watch their surprise/confusion.

Before I go flying, whether it's a cessna, a T-34 or a -60, I'm going to brief it, whether it's my own brief for passengers, or a NATOPS brief for the crew. I would never just hop in with little planning and start yanking and banking thinking I'm Chuck Yeager.

And thinking about how "proficient" I was as an 80 hour private pilot, and how much better a pilot I am now as a 250 hour military pilot (330TT), I feel like I would ease back into the Cessna rather quickly, but obviously with a latent humility.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#39
You're absolutely right. I didn't, by any means, mean that I'd go to some FBO, "hot dog" it, and sign autographs afterward for all the lowly CFIs. I just meant that CFI's generally have expectations for a new pilot with limited experience, and it'd be funny to have them coach and demo me through a manuever, and then I'd complete the maneuver at a much higher level of proficiency than they expected. It'd be fun to watch their surprise/confusion.
All I'm saying is I don't think it would be as entertaining as you think it would be.

Before I go flying, whether it's a cessna, a T-34 or a -60, I'm going to brief it, whether it's my own brief for passengers, or a NATOPS brief for the crew. I would never just hop in with little planning and start yanking and banking thinking I'm Chuck Yeager.
A good plan and sentiment. But I'm not naive enough to say that this is always required. Sometimes you get to a point where you don't really need to brief other than ask where the other guy wants to go, especially if you fly w/ the same guy often.

And thinking about how "proficient" I was as an 80 hour private pilot, and how much better a pilot I am now as a 250 hour military pilot (330TT), I feel like I would ease back into the Cessna rather quickly, but obviously with a latent humility.
No doubt. Not only will it allow you to get back in the saddle faster if/when you go back, that experience also has the potential to make you safer in a military aircraft when you have to interact w/ the civilian flora and fauna.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
#40
(in all seriousness, if you can't fly the shit out of a C172 as a Naval Aviator, I'd be surprised).
yawn. why would you want to? just so the CFIs can "ooh" and "ah" over your wonderful flying of a crummy little cessna?

plus, is it really "flying the shit out of it" when you're getting passed by cars on the highway?
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
#41
yawn. why would you want to? just so the CFIs can "ooh" and "ah" over your wonderful flying of a crummy little cessna?

plus, is it really "flying the shit out of it" when you're getting passed by cars on the highway?
1. See above post.

2. You could say the same thing about helos, or at least the -57. :D
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
#42
1. See above post.

2. You could say the same thing about helos, or at least the -57. :D
1. If that's how you get your kicks, go nuts. What do you do if end up not performing as flawlessly as you think you're going to?

2. GUNEXs on NVDs and going to the boat in a fleet helo kind of tends to make "max performing" a Cessna seem a little less exciting.
 

ryan1234

Active Member
#43
The main thing I remember from my days flying the Arrow is how heavy it's nose was coming into the flare.
I haven't flown an Arrow... but the Lance, Saratoga, Aztec, Seneca, Apache, Warrior, Archer, Cherokee (especially the 6), Commanche, and Navajo seems to be like that a little.

I kinda wonder what was going through Bob Hoover's mind the first time he decided the feather the props of his Shrike, do a loop, 8 pt roll and then dead stick it back for a perfect landing.... wonder if he did it in a checkout with a newly minted MEI?
 
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