Discussion in 'Primary' started by scombs, Mar 27, 2012.
Damn. . .I'm just hoping to bag 1000 P-3 hours before the end of this tour. . .
Then you are left with no choice. When you walk into the Skipper's office to debrief said fitrep, take a stand. Do the right thing.
Edit: Who spells school without an 'h'???
Hey, it's factual, you can submit it. Might even win you points at the DH board.
Maybe its a shift in community mentality but I've never met a self respecting NFO who so much as wanted to sleep in the rack.
I don't really have a desire to sleep in the rack, but I'll be damned if some 3P tries to tell me I can't.
We used it frequently. Sometimes just to piss off the pilots & FEs when they got on their high horses and started whining.
Never really poked around a P-3, but are the seats at your stations as TACCO and NAV not comfortable enough to sleep in? Most of the back end guys on the Merc just grab a quick nap at their stations when nothing is going on. The racks are used almost exclusively by the pilots and FEs. I've never heard a back end guy complain about it.
Why stay at the Motel 6 when you can stay at the Hilton?
It wasn't a real big issue and when the pilots/ FEs really needed the rack, they got it. But there were cases of O2 3PS telling an O4 or O5 NFO on a 6 hour repo that he had to get out of the rack because it was for pilots and FEs only. These guys got crushed on the spot. Same-same when the 3rd class FE told the non-FE Master Chief such nonsense.
OMG...Class (community) warfare in the VP world. Earthshaking new P-8 intro problems such as functionality of jacuzzis, showers & bidets; who has priority on the 3rd waterbed...baffles engineers and divides the community. What next, no monthly COLA raise in per diem? Tune in at 10 for update!
Never heard the rack compared to the Hilton... Typically my crews offered the rack to any O-5+ riding along with us, regardless of designator, as courtesy. O-4s- meh, they aren't special.
And I would tell you to get the fuck out of my 3Ps rack. Smiles in full effect, of course. When a Nav can land the plane better than I can answer his radios, he'll get to sleep in the rack.
Being qualified isn't license to be an azzhole to your peer JO's and your crew. I wouldn't tell you to get out of 3p's rack. I'd just let them put you on the "please and thank you" program ( as in "3p, my I please be granted search power to drop a buoy?", "thank you") until your attitude improved. It might take an ONSTA or two but eventually we'd all be one happy family
I thought to P-3 lifestyle was the selling point? It seems like there's some pilot-fo warfare...
Can the pilots in the P-3 answer all the radios or a certain subset?
Every radio with the exception of the portable long range, pilots can listen to and speak on.
I usually just monitor the hf or satcom unless shit gets really hectic, and listen/talk on two UHFs and the VHF radio. NAVs/TACCOs are generally the only ones talking on the HFs/SATCOMs, but the ability to select and speak on them is there for the flight station.
Generally pilots and FOs get along well in P-3s, like every other community they are in. There will always be banter between the two groups and the occasional personality that no body really likes but generally we all get along fairly well.
Wanna compare pilot hours??? (no smilies on the iPad). I had more than most pilots in my squadrons even before going to the airlines.
But seriously, if the length of the flight did not require 3 pilots or 2 FEs, I (as TACCO/MC) would have told you to kiss my ass and rolled over.
Funny that in the 16 years since I last saw the insides of a P-3, the rack argument hasn't changed.
Yeah, you'd do that once before I sent a message saying we were RTB for no search power.
True story time....
We were flying from Jax to Moffett coming back from a VP-30 NFO NATOPS conference. About an 8 hour flight if I remember right during banker hours (9 to 5). We had our XO (NFO), a couple of VP-31 NFO NATOPS evaluators and myself (squadron NATOPS officer, not just NFO but overall with pilot, etc. working for me). We also had 4 or 5 pilots,on board. The XO is new to the squadron after a 2 pilot front office. The XO is sleeping in a rack and a 3P comes back looking for it.
3P: Shit, the XO is in the rack
Pax PPC: You're a pilot, tell him to get out. According to NATOPS, the racks are only for pilots and FEs
3P: But he's the XO
Pax PPC: So what, it's NATOPS.
XO (waking up from the noise): Son, are you one of the pilots doing the landing at Moffett?
3P: Yes sir.
XO rolls out of the rack: It's all yours.
Later on the XO gathers all the NATOPS guys together and ask if any of us know something about racks in NATOPS that he might be missing. We answer no.
Next day at the squadron, The PPC that told the 3P to kick the XO because it's NATOPS and I are called into the CO's office (pilot). The XO is there.
CO: So NATOPS says the racks are only for pilots and FEs?
PPC: Yes sir
XO handing him a stack of P-3 NATOPS manuals: Show us where.
PPC with the light bulb coming on: Maybe I'm mistaken.
CO: I can't have my PPCs being mistaken about NATOPS. Take these manual with you and when you find it, show it to HAL Pilot. Until you find it, you're grounded. After you find it, HAL Pilot will get the Ops O to schedule you for your tests and check flight to ensure you really do know NATOPS.
The CO let him stew for a week before letting him off the hook (no check). A couple of months later he became an IP and eventually got a blue card.
Edit: I forgot the rest of the story regarding this PPC. After his commitment, he went got out and ended up flying for Delta and a reserve C-130 VR squadron. Flying a C-130 back from Africa as the AC, he decided to bring back a couple of parrots. Customs caught him and although he served no jail time, his federal smuggling convection lost him both his Delta job and his reserve commission. He was a natural stick but he just didn't have any common sense.
Do NFO NIs evaluate pilots and vice versa?
No, but the pilot NI worked for me.
Dumb question, what's a "Blue Card"?
They're the NATOPS instructors. Essentially, they're the ones who can give a NATOPS checkride.
As far as the rack argument goes, if none of my pilots need to be in there during the flight, then they're fair game. However, if one of them needs it, they have priority. Obviously, on a two pilot flight it's a non-issue, however on longer ones (missions or really long repos) then it's theirs. Never ran into this issue in flight because it was a mutual understanding kind of thing. Plus, the crew usually passes out during transit so they get their sleep anyways.
I do equate being a pilot or FE to being in the mafia. "I could sleep somewhere else and not get my rest, but I'd sure hate for something bad to happen..."
That nose looks like it needs a shit-eating grin right under the 955...
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