Discussion in 'OCS Class Dates and Information' started by NavyOffRec, Mar 22, 2012.
We had eight guys DOR out of AOCS Indoc. the very first day!
BDCP guys being NPQ'd is actually not surprising, what I have seen BDCP guys have issues with, eyes got worse, hurt knee in sports, hurt shoulder in sports, got fat, grew taller (it does happen).
The problem is a rather sticky wicket. The majority of the candidates coming in as SNA/NFO selectees are given the basic DODMERB physical at MEPS and then are finally given a flight physical at OCS. The problem is multifold:
1) OCS is neither the time or place to be performing full-form flight physicals. The amount of stress, lack of sleep, constant physical exhaustion, and low food intake can do horrible things to the body/psyche/etc. Having talked with the pilot accession community manager, he said that he had more problems with guys getting NPQed for some reason and then getting down to Pensacola (i.e. out of the suckfest that is OCS) and whatever problems that they had been diagnosed with were somehow gone.
2) I'm not quite sure why (It might have something to do with not having an actual flight surgeon at the health clinic in Newport) but all medical files need to be sent to NAMI in Pensacola. It then takes a long time to hear back about whether candidates have been NPQed or not. This means that for many candidates they find out that they've been NPQed in the 8th, 9th, and even 12th week of training. There was a kid a few classes ahead of me that DORed on graduation day because that was how long it took NAMI to let him know that he had been NPQed.
3) The medical administrative staff at OTCN can be very difficult to deal with. They care solely about getting candidates through and commissioned. I was told repeatedly to stop asking questions when trying to figure out what was going on with my own medical situation. Frankly, this is unacceptable. I know that many who went aviation base their sole decision to go Navy on whether or not they can fly. When trying to decide whether you're actually going to stay in or not, the last thing you should have to deal with is somebody telling you to stop worrying about it and just accept what happens.
I know that I sound bitter, and given my own history it would be hard to argue that I'm not at least a little bitter somewhere deep down inside; but I don't want anyone else to go through what I went through. I found out in the 9th week of training that I had been NPQed and then when trying to get answers as to what was going wrong and whether there was anything I could do about it, I was told to stop being a bother and just fall in line like everybody else.
And in order to not just bring up an issue without proffering a solution: I think the Air Force (I know, I know, Chair Farce, yada yada yada) does their pilot selection correctly. As I understand it, they send all of the folks applying for a pilot program to get a full flight physical before they even get to OCS/OTS/whatever they call it. I think that the small expenditure of funds on the front end would save the Navy dollar in sending candidates to OCS only to have them get NPQed or DOR from the program.
Out of curiosity, and this may be something you may or may not want to share on the forum, but what NPQ'ed you 9 weeks later that didn't stand out immediately to someone giving the exams?
Oddly enough the number that get NPQ'd for Pilot is quite low, in over 3 years our NRD has only had 3 get NPQ'd for aviation and we send a lot, one injured his back at OCS and the injury was bad enough he could no go into URL, the other was eyesight 20/40 at MEPS but was 20/50 at OCS, the third was depth perception, he failed at MEPS and his recruiter had him go to a few eye docs until he passed then submitted that to N3M and he was then PQ'd, then surprise he failed depth perception after he was in.
The number is low enough cost isn't justified to send people for the full aviation physicals. This was the exact quote when my former boss (an aviator) asked the question about flight physicals.
OK, during AOCS (myself being 09-87) condition 1a applied. The only upside was that we did those flight physicals were done at NAMI so folks that were whammied found out pretty quickly. I don't recall the actual attrition numbers but at one point my starting class of 60 was down to 20 and we graduated 35 IIRC. I went there as an NFO and retired as an NFO and frankly I think that short of some odd one's the tacair NFO may be the rarest of all Naval Air designators and I'm proud to have done it.
When I signed up many decades ago as an AVROC during my sophomore year in college, I took a complete flight physical. I failed because of a bad football injured knee. The recruiters said I could continue in the program only if I had a civilian orthopedic specialist to certify (on my own dime) that I could pass the physical demands of AOCS and beyond.
So I found a civilian doctor and he hesitatingly signed the waiver.... but said the Navy would never accept me because of another medical anomaly I had at the time. Thankfully his waiver got me in, and his prognostication proved wrong.
For me, when I got to AOCS in Pensacola, their NAMI physical – outside of the brain scan stuff and others – was less than I got during my entrance to the AVROC program at NAS Olathe. But times do change, don't they?
Hey Pugs, you and I were at AOCS together; I was 06-87 the whole way. We started with 50-something, rolled a bunch and had a few DORs (including one of my roommates, who got pussy whipped by his girlfriend over the holiday break), but with others rolling in, we still graduated with 48. We were told that our class was unusually large.
The flight physical at OCS in Newport was a DQ-fest for the docs and I'm guessing it still is. My class only had a few guys get through scott-free and the other 10-12 of us aviation guys were stuck waiting on waivers forever. My PRK waiver didn't come in until literally 24hrs before I was supposed to grad/commission.
My class started with 95-ish and we graduated 63 (including the 5 or 6 that rolled in). I know for a fact that we had at least 5 DORs (as in 'fuck this, I quit') in each company in the first week. FWIW, I was in 05-11 (Oct10-Jan11).
Started with 95?! Wow, classes are much bigger now. Are they less frequent?
They temporarily went up to 100, they now try to cap them at 50
what are the facilities like at Newport? Squad bays? 4 person rooms? Dedicated OCS chow hall?
Not sure but it is changing, they are building a new OCS barracks right now, my guys coming back have seen all the construction.
Had to look that one up. Nice.
Nimitz hall rooms are "dorm style" - two to a room with 12 p-ways on two decks, the bottom floor of the building is reserved for staff offices and the like. OCS has a dedicated chow hall entrance but the building is shared with the rest of the OTCN populace, although its generally understood that the side facing the Bay is reserved for OCS classes. The new building is supposed to be complete sometime before the end of the fiscal year, at which time they will bulldoze the current Nimitz and start construction on a new King Hall.
NAS Olathe, Kansas... lots of subs out there in the Kansas plains:
They should be building an indoor track/workout facility. PT at that place blows in the winter. I got so sick of running laps in Nimitz hall and I didn't even have to do nearly as much as the other classes.
I started by PPL there in 1984, there was a relatively small avionics company on the field, I wonder how they turned out?
KOJC, was in the middle of nowhere back the, now it is deep in the suburbs.
I 100% agree with you - unfortunately it isn't going to happen. This was probably the #1 frustration of both graduates and staff up at OTCN during our out briefs, but the gym fits the requirements for an "indoor PT facility" so there won't be a new one anytime soon. Personally, I think they could throw up one of those bubbles around the football field for a lot less than the cost of a new facility, but that field technically belongs to NAPS, not OTCN, so they can't.
The TRUE cradle of Naval Aviation.
Oh yes..the "different pot of money" argument. Pretty sure we've heard this one before. What should matter is that it belongs the fucking NAVY. OR....we could just move OCS back to Pcola and solve the problem all together.
Yeah moving OCS back to Pensacola is a fiscally feasible solution. Regardless of location, I am sure OCS still does what it is designed to do. I will find out soon enough.
I think you get a lot of bright folks who get picked up for pilot slots...that really never wanted to do the navy, but the economy kinda pushed them to "follow their dream"..so the Navy was a fall back b/c lack of jobs. They show up to OCS and think "This is the military? Fuck this!".. They don't realize that OCS is not the Navy, API is not flight school, flight school is not the Fleet....etc.
Navyoffrec, what happened to your guy with the 20/50 eyesight? Did they push him into NFO or something or just send him home?
He chose to go NFO vice come home.
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