Navy Relieves Captain After Carrier Crash

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apwashington_story.asp?category=1152&slug=Warship Collison

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=14927

There goes Capt. Squires career. If it was intentional on the dhows part then it sounds like a dry run for a future attack, if not then my condolences to the family.

I was gonna say it smelled like scape goats

Isn't it SOP to relieve the CO when there is an investigation?

Seems to me that if that dhow had been a terrorist attack and the Kennedy damaged, he'd have been releived. If he had sunk it with gunfire before it could get too close, he'd have been relieved. If it just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (as it may have been in this case) he'd have been relieved.

Aren't we sending a GREAT message to our enemies?

This $hit sucks... some show probably dropped the ball and a good CO gets the axe. I wonder if anyone else went down on this. That would go along way in saying that it wasn't just the CO.

Incidentally though, he may be able to bounce back. If sub-CO's can ram another sub and still move on (2nd USS Greenville CO after fishing boat incident) shouldn't a good CVN CO be able to do the same?

It's not scapegoating...the CO is ultimately responsible for the boat. That also means he is ultimately responsible in seeing that his people are trained to handle a situation such as an approaching small boat correctly. While I have heard that dhows are incredibly hard to spot on radar, it doesn't excuse the CV and the escorts from conducting a constant visual scan to prevent small boats from closing with the CV.

While that is true, it still doesn't make sense if these things are intentionally playing chicken because they know we make every effort to move. From what I've heard these things aren't exactly rules of the road friendly. I would like to hear more about the specifics before getting to intrenched in an opinion. Though if Bunk22 says he's a good guy then that's enough for me.

They haven't taken any action against any one else on that boat YET. I emphasize yet. As far as were or not it is fair to relive to the CO, I think it is whenever there is loss of life. It sounds like to me someone messed up the CPA (closest point of approach). But I am only guessing and the investigation is still ongoing. As far as where the Captain will be able to continue his career that will be a direct function of what the report says. But I tell you what if I were a 0-6 right now I am not sure that i would want to be the CO of the JFK, apparently they have had 5 CO's in the last two years!

If anyone else goes down with the CO, it would probably be the OOD and maybe someone else who was on watch on the bridge. I bet that OOD will have his/her letter pulled and whoever was on watch with him/her won't get qual'd. If I took command of the ship after an incident like this, I certainly wouldn't be too eager to put those people back up on the bridge.

That being said, those damn dhows are nearly impossible to see at night. They don't show up on radar. They sometimes show up on commercial radar like Furuno, but only intermittenly. They often run without side or masthead lights. I've made two trips to the gulf and I can tell you about the only way to see those suckers at night is by scanning with NVGs (IF you have them on the bridge), which takes up too much time that you need to be devoting to other things.

The thought of a probe for an attack is scary. Can you imagine the possibilities of a Cole attack on a CVN? If not the actual effects, the propaganda returns would be HUGE for terrorists.

It sounds like you are referring to the incident that took place in 2002 between the USS Greeneville and the USS Ogden (an amphib, not a sub) in the Arabian Sea. In that incident, the Greeneville was transferring sailors to the Ogden, so the two ships were supposed to be close together. Not exactly what I would term a "ramming" and by no means comparable to the incident involving the JFK.

No I know about that. Someone I went to school with at NSI said that the Greenville sideswiped another sub on the way out of port. I don't know maybe it was just scuttlebut after all.

what happened to the CO of the sub that came up under the japanese fishing boat full of students?

I'm sure a good chunk of it is that they just like to mess with the Yankees.

He went to an ADM's board and got sacked. From what I heard from guys that served with him in the past and on that particular tour was that he acted like a cowboy. He wasn't a team player and was trying to show off. In the process he violated about a dozen safety rules and disregarded his enlisted crew's warnings just so he could show off for the civilians that were crammed into the CON.

Bunk22: Ever heard of a helo guy commanding any large ship? CVN, Gator, any non oiler? Any ship at all for that matter?

Yes in fact helo guys can be the CO of a ship. I think you see more helo guys in gator thou, road back me up if i am right on that one.

El Cid,

Back in the 90s, it seemed to me that the Navy shifted its stance. It started being a lot more open and acknowledging when a sub had a "BumpEx." Do you know if that is still true, or are you hearing of incidents that the Navy never acknowledged?

There are always two sides to the story. I talked to a pair of guys who served on the ship TAD and they both said it was one of the tightest and happiest ships they had been on, and the Captain was one of the more professional guys they had worked with. With that said, basic safety and surfacing procedures were not followed for the surfacing. The Captain retired and went to Japan to apologize to the families, a very important thing over there.

It wasn't just any old fishing boat too, it was a high school ship. I can't think of a worse ship to run into. The Navy, along with the Japanese Navy, actually salvaged the ship (it was called the Ehime Maru) to recover the bodies but left the ship on the bottom. One of the most difficult salvage operations ever. Shows you the importance in which we hold our alliance with Japan. Here is a link:

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2001/Oct/22/ln/ln04a.html

As for the Captain being relieved, maybe the Army could learn something from it. In my opinion, they should relieve everyone who was in charge at Abu Grahib, from the Company commander to the Battalion commanders all the way up to the people in charge of the prisons.

Just wanted to point out the skipper of the JFK was a CV CO not a CVN CO.

The CO of the Lincoln, Capt. Card is a helo pilot. There are at least two helo guys in the CVN-PXO training pipeline at the moment.

Also, the CO of an oiler could very well be an aviator in the CV/CVN- CO pipeline doing his deep draft tour.

Falc...I wish I could back you up. The four CO's I saw on KSG were two SWOs, an F-14 pilot and F-14 NFO.

Like I said, I don't know if it is true or scuttlebut.