NAVAIR Question

[jRiot504]

I have an application in for OCS but recently had NAVAIR reach out to me for an interview for an Operations Research Analyst position to help build aircraft readiness prediction models. Based on my understanding it is appears to be models similar to the ones in this article - http://navalaviationnews.navylive.dodlive.mil/2017/03/14/analytical-tools-improve-readiness/. Being that getting accepted to OCS is no guarantee I like to keep my options open and this appears to be good role in the Navy community.

As I am not familiar with NAVAIR, what is the aviation community's perception of the work they do?

 

[AMGunner]

I worked for NAVAIR for several years and still have plenty of family who still do now. Which location are you potentially going to work at?

 

[jRiot504]

Down in Jacksonville, Florida.

How do you like working for them? What did you do?

 

[AMGunner]

I worked at Pax River, MD which is the HQ for NAVAIR supporting Information Assurance (Cyber Security). Jacksonville is home to FRC-Southeast and has a “depot” mission which is to overhaul, rebuild, maintain etc. Here is a webpage on it https://jobs.navair.navy.mil/fl1.html

I only visited the location a handful of times but seemed to be an alright place. The main thing you have to be prepared for is that like most large organizations NAVAIR certainly has its share of bureaucracy and each location tends to be its own tribe that doesn’t want to be bothered by big brother (HQ) but overall I enjoyed my time at NAVAIR. The good part is that the FRC’s from my experience tend to have a more direct fleet support attitude which is always a plus. From your description of building aircraft readiness models, this to me translates into doing math for logistics purposes, figuring out lifecycles of platform components.

 

[jRiot504]

Thank you for the information. It will be a mathematics/statistics based job.

I have another question regarding pay scale. She stated the position is a GS-9 role with the potential to be higher given experience, a GS-9 would be a minimum $40k salary cut for me. Does a GS pay offer other benefits? If I am picked for OCS I am aware the base pay is lower but when I factor in military benefits (particularly retirement) it is even.

 

[AMGunner]

When you are a federal civilian you fall under the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) retirement system which is basically:

1. 401k style Investment account (Called the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP)) with a 5% match

2. FERS Pension which is 1% of your high three salary ( The FERS pension is peanuts compared to active duty pension)

3. Social Security

With Active duty BRS you get:

1. BRS Pension at 40% High three

2. TSP with match 5% after your first two years and then a continuation lump after 12 years

There is a bunch of BRS talk on these threads so I won’t get into any details but, me personally and to be honest my daughter is active duty now and I gave her the same advice is that financially you are best served by going active and staying as long as you prefer as long as you A.) max out your TSP and B.) stay till 20 years and get your retirement whether you stay active for the 20 or if you get out after a period and finish your 20 in the reserves.

My thought process around it is this:

1. The one thing you can get back once its gone is time, so the earlier you are able to max out your 401k/TSP the better off you will be. This is income stream #1 at retirement

2. Do 20 years in the military and get a pension active obviously pays out more and reserve obviously less and at different ages (active pays out when you retire, reserve does not kick in till after 60) This is income stream #2 at retirement.

3. I see you are 32 so if you did 20 and got out at age 52 you still likely have a good 10-15 years left in you, this is where you start your (second career) NAVAIR and places like it will still be there when you are done with the military except now you have more education and experience and should be able to negotiate a much higher role and salary. So instead of a GS-9 lets say you start at GS-14. Now you are earning $100k plus and putting another 10-15 years into your TSP. I’ll call this Income stream #3

4. Guess what, with FERS (unless it has changed since I had it) you vest after 5 years so, although small you would get something and your high 3 is now higher which means the payout is higher. Lets call this income stream #4

5. You still get social security – income stream # 5

6. If you do 20 in the military you also get Tricare/Exchange/Commissary/Space A etc

7. FIN- Drinking Mai Tai’s and cigars on the beach

It all adds up if you do it right and a lot of people do, others may differ with opinion and I may have missed a point or two but this is my general opinion

P.S. don’t forget about BAH and BAS when calculating your active duty pay, you will likely be over $40k equivalent, and you have no healthcare cost which would come out of your GS-9 check and everything is taxed whereas BAH and BAS is not

 

[jRiot504]

Thank you for the detailed response.

I actually have a little over 10 years active duty service already. I separated four years ago and have been working as a data scientist since then. Though have missed the military and long for a job not sitting in an office 40 hours a week, which is why I have applied for SWO; Intel is in there because my recruiter stated I was most qualified for those roles. Granted mine current job pays well, is stress free and intellectually challenging so I can't complain. When I applied for OCS, I made conscious decision I would do a minimum 10 years, reference officer retirement, but if the Navy will let me stay in longer I will.

Based on your comments reference the Federal Civilian retirement, it is no wonder the government has a hard time competing at times. The TSP isn't any better than the civilian side and since the pay is lower the contributions are lower. Granted you don't get a pension so I suppose that is the trade-off but given tech salaries a semi-savvy financial individual should be able to save up an equivalent retirement.

 

[Griz882]

FERS Pension which is 1% of your high three salary ( The FERS pension is peanuts compared to active duty pension)

That is not remotely how FERS works or is calculated.

 

[AMGunner]

Which is why I stated " I may have missed a point or two but this is my general opinion" anyone can look at how it is calculated on OPMs website

 

[Flash]

That is not remotely how FERS works or is calculated.

The FERS pension is 1% per year of service for most folks; 30 years = 30%, 36 years = 36% and so on. You can 'buy back' your military service for a pretty small amount, 3% of your total base pay from active duty, and get all those years credited towards FERS retirement as well. Certainly not as generous as a military pension, which now has double the value after 20 years under BRS, but certainly nothing to turn your nose up at either.

For the OP, have you thought of the reserves? Might be a better fit for you.

 

[Griz882]

Add to that the fact that roughly 17% of the active duty force actually make it to the 20 year retirement mark. Civilian numbers are far higher.

There is no doubt that a military pension is an exceptional thing...earning one, however, is more than simply hanging out for 20 years.

 

[jRiot504]

The FERS pension is 1% per year of service for most folks; 30 years = 30%, 36 years = 36% and so on. You can 'buy back' your military service for a pretty small amount, 3% of your total base pay from active duty, and get all those years credited towards FERS retirement as well. Certainly not as generous as a military pension, which now has double the value after 20 years under BRS, but certainly nothing to turn your nose up at either.

For the OP, have you thought of the reserves? Might be a better fit for you.

I haven't thought of the reserves. I have a friend who is a Nurse in the Reserves but I was unsure how that would work for SWO or Intel.

My package will be going up for the 05MAR and 06MAR boards, so I am patiently waiting until then before making any moves. I will hear back at the end of this week about a 'Cyber-Security Data Science' position an hour from where I live. Work from home, 40 hours a week, low $100k salary in Northern Idaho.

My wife and I have discussed these are precursor tests before OCS i.e., Fast Cruise will be easy knowing I gave up the easy life to rejoin the military.

 

[Flash]

I haven't thought of the reserves. I have a friend who is a Nurse in the Reserves but I was unsure how that would work for SWO or Intel.

Search for Direct Commission Officer (DCO) here and on Google and you'll find a lot of info. There are no DCO SWO's, they are all previous service, but there are DCO Intel folks and I would hazard a guess you might be somewhat competitive but they are very selective, more so than almost any active duty option. At least it may be worth a look though.

 

[jRiot504]

Search for Direct Commission Officer (DCO).

Thank you for that. If the board does not go well, I will certainly look into that as an option. Granted I would prefer Active Duty as I can focus my time and energy on one career, instead of compartmentalizing two careers - Data Scientist and Navy Officer.

 

[Hair Warrior]

One thing that I have heard people do is to accept both the GS-9 job and the OCS slot. Honesty is the best policy with both recruiters so they are not caught unaware. Any civilian employer is required to hold your job for you for up to X years (4?) if you go on military orders, which includes any orders to report to OCS. After your initial service obligation, you could choose to go perform that GS-9 job again. If you don’t get selected for OCS, you are a NAVAIR civilian regardless.