Motorola Droid

Discussion in 'War Zone' started by Birdog8585, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Gatordev

    Gatordev Well-Known Member None

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    Because the military system and the civilian system don't talk to one another. They are two very different systems and when you file IFR out of a military base, they actually transmorgify your flight plan to go outside into the real world where they get your actual clearance.

    Something else to realize is that even if you're filing from a civilian field to a civilian field in a civilian aircraft, your flight plan info is very different than your ATC info. Not all the info in your flight plan can fit in the ATC system. So basically, you end up w/ three different systems. Military, FSS, and ATC.

    Sounds cool, but I don't think I'm understanding completely. Will it actually allow you to file from a military field and Ground will have your ATC clearance? If so, that's huge. Much easier to deal w/ than having to play the Base Ops game. I know that's the one big limitation of DUATS.
     
  2. Brett327

    Brett327 Magnum! None

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    The end result is the same as if you call a FSS and I've never had an issue with closing out my flight plan, as I'm always terminating my flight at a military field. I presume that the online stuff, which is not particularly new, just interfaces with FSS or DUATS in some fashion. I've used this app twice sans problem and have done it through FSS a bunch of times. I'm not up on the nitty gritty details, but I presume the "system" generates a strip at the point of departure regardless of the manner in which it is input.

    Brett
     
  3. Gatordev

    Gatordev Well-Known Member None

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    But are you departing from a military field when you've done this? I'm not arguing your point, just making sure I understand. If so and you've called FSS/diddled w/ your app, then it sounds like either the system has been upgraded (doubtful based on when I've talked w/ FSS guys when filing to a military destination from a civ field) or OPNAV is wrong (very possible).

    Either way, I'm pretty sure that NRB would find a way to inconvenience you if you departed from there. They excel at that.
     
  4. GO_AV8_DevilDog

    GO_AV8_DevilDog Round 2...

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    So has anyone gotten one of these yet?
     
  5. Jim123

    Jim123 molding (warping) the future of naval aviation None

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    Not yet, maybe soon since my contract is up in a few weeks.

    I've read a lot of reviews that seem both promising and realistic- of course I gotta take each one with a grain of salt. I'm wondering how the battery life will be- old Motorolas (V60 and T720) were unfortunately known for running down their batteries in fringe reception (generally applies to any cell phone, just worse for those). On the other hand I've found some favorable comments for the Droid's power management as long as you don't use all of the toys too much or all at the same time (bright screen, GPS, WiFi, etc.). Supposedly the camera is nothing special.

    Something else I ran across ("NERDINT" source???) is there will be a GSM version to be released by one of the Canadian companies... I wonder if we'll see that on a US carrier anytime soon.
     
  6. Brett327

    Brett327 Magnum! None

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    Yep. Haven't had an issue. Used it at Nellis and Mountain Home sans problem. You can even use the App to see if your flight plan is "in" the system. What's the nature of the problem you've has using FSS?
     
  7. Jim123

    Jim123 molding (warping) the future of naval aviation None

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    @Gatordev, you're talking about the military notification message from FSS to military base ops, right? (The thing 3710.7 4.4.4.4 mentions albeit in the context of DUATS, not the IFR "strip" ATC uses, not the VFR "strip" for flight following/VFR position reporting, and not the overdue aircraft/landing report part of a any flight plan.)

    From what I've seen (VFR and IFR from a civilian to a military field with and without contacting FSS), nobody at military base ops seems to care about that message... and the latest 3710 came out about two years before all the FSSes were privatized/contract to Lockheed, hmm...
     
  8. Gatordev

    Gatordev Well-Known Member None

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    I wasn't just talking about the notification message, though from the way it's been described to me by the FSS guys, some military fields still want that if you don't have a PPR there. That may be more a book answer rather than what anyone actually cares about, though.

    What my question was about was actually getting into the system. Perhaps I've misunderstood (or mislead), but I was under the impression that if you file w/ FSS (or DUATS, or Brett's app, etc) FROM a military field, when you check in w/ Clearance/Ground, they won't know who you are and won't have the IFR ATC strip. So you're saying this is incorrect and they will know? In hindsight, I guess that makes sense, since they pull the ATC strip from the system and not Base Ops. This still doesn't eliminate the problem of filing (utilizing a military form) from a military field and Base Ops not having a conniption fit about it. I guess that's the part I'm surprised you haven't had any issues with, Brett, especially from an AF base.

    Here's why I say that:

    Helo departs out of NRB on a VFR military flight plan (basically, nothing in the system outside of NRB's base ops). They file for 3 hours and are on a Log run to Patrick. When they land at Patrick, they taxi to the T-line, pick up their pax (spinning the whole time), and then request taxi for departure.

    Ground asks if they've filed a flight plan w/ Base Ops. HAC says no, they're already on a flight plan from their home base. Ground refuses to let them depart. So they had to shut down (or maybe they kept spinning, I can't remember) and someone had to drive the HAC ALL THE WAY around the base to Base Ops to file a flight plan that wasn't necessary.

    An extreme case, but since most military fields tend to have more junior (ie inexperienced) controllers, I'm surprised filing in the civilian system IFR to depart from a military field hasn't caused more issues for Brett and anyone else using the app. If it hasn't, I'm all for a great tool like that one.
     
  9. FlyBoyd

    FlyBoyd Out to Pasture None

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    Brett,

    What info did you have to provide to open the account within the app? I ask because I was wondering if filing through that system might provide the FAA enough info to be able to track you down. Do you think you could be loosing the anonymity that a 175 provides you? I don't use Fltplan.com, etc specifically because the information provided could be tracked to my civilian identity and a violation dismissed by the CNO could be tacked onto my civilian license by the FAA anyways.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. Flash

    Flash SEVAL/ECMO None

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    Well, he is a FO. What the heck can the FAA do it to him? I am serious, if he doesn't have civilian tickets what can they do?
     
  11. Brett327

    Brett327 Magnum! None

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    In your scenario, why not just take off VFR and pick-up an IFR clearance airborne? We do that all the time too.

    Brett
     
  12. Gatordev

    Gatordev Well-Known Member None

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    By scenario, you mean the Patrick one? They tried. Ground wouldn't even let them taxi w/out a flight plan on file at base ops. Ghey.
     
  13. Brett327

    Brett327 Magnum! None

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    Yeah, wow. I've never even heard of something like that. :confused: You mentioned something about PPRs. We almost alwyas operate with a PPR, even to Navy fields - maybe that makes the process easier, although I don't know why. AFAIK, they just use the PPR as a way to manage the volume through their T-lines.

    Brett
     
  14. Jim123

    Jim123 molding (warping) the future of naval aviation None

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    I actually have heard a PPR# relayed over the radio once or twice... can't remember if the flight crew volunteered the info or if ATC asked them. But that's once or twice ever. I always figured the tower typically has it in front of them in your flight plan remarks so they don't need to ask.

    And yeah- agree on managing the volume. Sometimes a pattern seems to emerge, usually based on the date/Julian date/day of the week...
     
  15. FlyBoyd

    FlyBoyd Out to Pasture None

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    ...and everyone that reads this thread is a FO without a civilian ticket to consider? Thanks for playing Flash. You and he might not care. Others will. My point was to be careful about supplying info to supposed secure sites. The FAA has been known to dig until they can attach blame to someone. If you put your info out there to be found, the protection the CNO affords you will mean nothing.

    Nice job responding to a question stating the obvious and not really providing useful information to those that might need it i.e. pilots/NFOs/SNAs with a civilian license to protect.

    I fully expect you to provide some other useless response below. Please prove me wrong.
     

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