Military to civilian flight hours~

Greetings~

I have used the Search function, but could not find much info.

The military to civilian flight hour conversion (.3, .2, ? per sortie)... is that written anywhere, or is that company specific? Also, when speaking with a potential employer, what is the best way to approach the subject of conversion (how does one ask if that employer will let you use the conversion "method")?

Thanks in advance (if you are not flaming my post)~

What kind of employment are you looking for?

Professional math converter~

Merry Christmas

I drink IPAs

No flight time converter there. Just eyeing my options...

It's company specific. It'll say on the application. For SWA it's .3, and FedEX it's .2. Note that it's per LEG, not a straight (total hours x .3). It'll ask on the form if you used a conversion factor.

If you don't know for sure, just use straight hours.

Airlineapps.com has you enter straight time and a break down of the sorties you flew (PIC, SIC, IP, etc.) and applies (behind the scenes) whatever conversion factor the participating companies choose to use. Read the instructions carefully as different companies want Part 1 PIC and some allow Part 61 PIC.

This is true. I was speaking of the company specific application sites. PilotCredentials.com for the two I mentioned.

I haven't actually pushed the send button on my airlineapps profile yet. My understanding is that none of their clients have open windows at the moment.

I don't think that any major airline lets you do the part 61 thing.

True statement. Part 1 PIC only - you signed for the plane or it doesn't count as PIC.

Conversions are airline specific and many airlines do not allow any conversion. This is why if you do a search you will find that I advocate over and over again that anyone with any thought of going to the airlines should keep a separate civilian log book with block out to block in flight times versus the military t/o to landing times.

The FAR/AIM describes it as such:

Flight time means:
Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing.

Would it be incorrect to assume you are missing some flight time in a wheeled helo when you have to taxi somewhere before actually lifting off? Hal Pilot, some airlines do. In regards to civilian helo jobs, I have not found anything. For the separate log book~ did you transfer all of your military entries into a "civilian" log book and use the above FAR statement as guidance to add time per sortie?

If you are talking flight time conversions, yes some airlines do use a conversion but many don't.

If you are talking PIC, I can not think of a single major airline that counts part 61 PIC and I doubt the regionals do. Corporate might and insurance for corporate probably does - and it's the insurance that many times drives corporate pilot qualifications.

The definition of flight time you gave is block out to block in. That is what should be used in a civilian log book. If you haven't been keeping a civilian logbook from day one, it's hard to accurately transfer old military flights now. I've had 5 minutes of taxi time and 30 minutes of taxi time. Who know what it was for each leg years ago let alone months ago or even weeks ago. For those still in primary, it's easier to tranfer the legs and get this figure somewhat accurately. For anyone else it's just a guess. But if you do it from day one or early on in your career, you can use the civilian numbers on your resume and during an interview take both military and civilian logs to show the leg by leg comparison if they question the difference between the two logs.

Does it make much of a difference? Probably not because any major airline interviewer knows how times are logged by both military and civilian. But it could be a tie breaker. Also they aren't as smart in the regional world or corporate world. Corporate is probably where it makes the most difference in your favor.

HAL - A little off topic, but what the hell: Is flight time, as it refers to aircraft hours, calculated block out/block in, as well?

If you are talking for maintenance purposes, I think we go t/o to land but I'm not 100% positive. Not in my scan as I look for no open writeups without a MEL, an overnight check and and ETOPS check. If I have those, I go. Everything else is somebody else's problem.

However, for every flgiht we log block out, start taxi, t/o, land, stop taxi & block in on the Captain's flight report and via ACARS. So everyone has the the times for their rice bowl.

I would not worry too much about the flight time conversion. Just bring your military logbooks and use that time on any application form. If the application form states that you can use some kind of conversion for fighter time, use it. If the application does not have a conversion formula, do not come up with one of your own. In an interview, they are looking to see if your logs match up with what you have on your application and are not some kind of BS artist.

As long as your flight time meets the hiring mins having more or less does not matter. As a military rated aviator, you have already proven that you have the ability to handle the training program. Now all you have to do is convince the Captain who will be sitting in on your interview that you will be worthy of his beer money.

Looking forward to flying with you guys- Ronbo

^ I would agree with what Fallonflyr justed posted except for the fact that throughout the industry, pilots are slowly losing control of the initial screening process and HR types are taking over. To an HR type, 2500 hours looks better than 2200 hours and they don;t realize the difference between military and civilian flying. Once you get past HR and are invited to the interview, then Fallonflyr is absolutely correct.

^HR? What's causing a shift towards HR vice pilots in the initial screening process?

When it happened at Hawaiian was when we started hiring again in 2008, the Chief Pilot was told it was due to ensure a "non-discriminatory" hriing process. In otherwords the lawyers got involved.

HR supposedly has some computerized ranking system that factors in qualifcations, education, demographics, prior work history, etc... to select candidates in a non-descriminatory manner while meeting all applicable laws.....

Yes, I threw up while typing that. Unfornuately most of the airlines are going this same route.

While I thought that would be the case, I was certainly hoping that you'd tell me something different.

Oh well, welcome to 2012.

So, "hurt feelings lawsuit prevention." What a world.

This seems to be universally true. I have apps in several places, and when one of my buddies walks my resumé to the Chief Pilot, they have said "He sounds great, but until the computer selects him, there's nothing I can do. Tell me when he gets an interview and I can help him then."

Right now my availability is the only thing holding me back (I'm told), and that will eventually fix itself.

It's a frustrating process, but that's the way it is, I guess.

Qualifications...Check
Education...Check
Prior Work History...Check

Demographics... *sigh* Maybe someday we'll get to a point where the first three criterion are enough. Apparently, as of 2012, we're not there yet.

"I have a dream..."

I am pretty sure that when the hiring starts next year all military trained aviators will be the first to be called in for interviews. Supply and demand and all that...

This isn't just the airline industry. If you apply to a defense contractor (for any kind of position including flying jobs) you have to apply through their websites to get yourself through their HR system. Once you can get through HR as qualified your contacts at a company can start helping you out.

I don't agree with this. I think it will be a mix of regional guys along with military guys. Probably 60-40 in favor of the regional guys. That seems to be the trend now.

HAL, do new hire hires have any leeway in negotiating salary or benefits, or do the union contracts ensure that all new hires get the same compensation?