Wow. Let me guess, you're a Lt stashed at ATB post TBS while waiting for flight school. Wait until you get to the fleet...
Maybe if the MAW/MARDIV/MEF staff spent more time doing MCMAP, they'd have less time to come up with bullshit programs for us lowly peons to do.
When you've done your 20th MarineNet predeployment class on "Trafficking in Persons" and "Counterintelligence," ("take a different route to work every day") or have to qualify on a freakin' carbine, you'll see that the training bag has gotten stretched with a couple pounds too much crap. I don't have any problem with MCMAP pe se. It's actually better than a lot of useless crap. However, to do it right requires a LOT of sustainment training. That means that if HQMC actually thinks it's so important, it should probably a couple other turds to pull out of the bag to make room. As Yogi Berra once said "When you find yourself at a fork in the road, take both." Just like anywhere in goverment, sometimes higher echelons think they can choose "all of the above." They don't see all the consequences of that, just that another good idea is now implemented, we can say that our Marines are Kung-fu fighters, and commands now have another requirement to figure out what to do with.
And like I said, just wait until you're in the fleet and you see just how much shit you try to stuff in a sock. Your tune may change...
MCMAP is over rated. Most of the instructors have no martial arts background. The syllabus is thought completely wrong in most cases. The moves taught can get you seriously hurt in a real situation. I believe the program needs reform.
One Mind, Any Weapon! And it had to happen, someone at EWS decided to write on the topic and the USAF decided to host it on the Air War College website: MCMAP and the Marine Warrior Ethos Meanwhile, MCMAP makes the news! Marine Corps Martial Arts Program history is made on Camp Fallujah Story by Cpl. Sean P. McGinty CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq – Since it’s inception in 2001, the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program has churned out warriors and the Marines who train them. But on Camp Fallujah, a cadre of instructors from Multi National Force – West made MCMAP history by forging 95 new instructors of various belt levels, according to Sgt. Brandon W. Meng, a 27-year-old MCMAP instructor-trainer at the Marine Corps’ Martial Arts Center of Excellence in Quantico, Va. The class of 95 service members, from various military branches and occupational specialties, graduated from the MCMAP Martial Arts Instructor Course Oct. 3 in the Chapel of Hope here. After five arduous weeks of training, these new instructors can now impart the knowledge they’ve learned to others, allowing their students to give back to their peers, by teaching them the physical, mental and moral disciplines of MCMAP. “These Marines did outstanding,” said Staff Sgt. Jeff J. Vandentop, the 31-year-old I Marine Expeditionary Force Headquarters Group (Forward) company gunnery sergeant and chief instructor-trainer for the course. The course was five-weeks of striking, grappling and standing workouts, standing and ground free-sparring, unit-cohesion exercises and instructor training. Troops under black-belt who participated also obtained a higher belt level. “The curriculum was the same as the rear, but more spread out,” said Vandentop, an Upland, Calif. native. This was due to busy deployment work schedules the service members have to endure. The course takes three-weeks in America. The record-making class size turned out to be a fun challenge for Vandentop and his four assistant instructors. Marines even came from bases all over the MNF-W area of operations to attend the course. “I personally found it refreshing to have a class this size,” Vandentop said. “Over 80 students graduating this course, that’s unheard of; and I used to run the satellite school at (Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego), and I never had more than around 20 to 24 students at a time” The curriculum also held many surprises for the students. They had guest instructor Col. George H. Bristol, the I MHG commanding officer, and the man Gen. James L. Jones, the 32nd commandant, asked to create a fighting system for the Marine Corps. Sgt. Maj. Larock W. Benford, Multi National Force – West’s Ground Combat Element sergeant major, black-belt instructor and All-Marine Wrestler, also instructed the class. They also performed intense physical training and were taught fighting techniques that are not included in the MCMAP syllabus. “Thinking outside the box helps you become a more well-rounded warrior,” Benford, from Providence, R.I., told the soon-to-be graduates, as he taught them wrestling techniques. “The thing I enjoyed the most was the knowledge that the guest trainers gave us,” said Sgt. Sarina A. Young, a 25-year-old field mess clerk from I MHG, and now a MCMAP black belt instructor. Young said that she became a MCMAP instructor so that she could contribute more to the Marine Corps. “I want to go out there and train Marines,” the Hanford, Calif. native said. “I believe this is a great program, and I feel a sense of ‘warrior discipline’ from it.” To upgrade belt levels, Marines must learn the ethos and history of warrior cultures from the past. From the Spartans to the Marine Raiders of World War II, the students not only learn about the societies that produced these warriors, but their battle tactics and cultures as well. When Bristol spoke to the graduates, he let them know that they will be remembered among this list of history’s most valiant warriors. “But we will stand out above them,” his booming voice echoed throughout the chapel, without the aid of a microphone. “We are free men and women who have chosen to fight .”
MCMAP is not over rated. "Most of the instructors have no martial arts background" What did you expect, ninja school? If you are getting the word Martial in MCMAP confused with the traditional Martial Arts, you are mistaken. If you are thinking about "individuals dressed in white kimonos throwing and kicking each other around the dojo," you, along with many others, are wrong. "Of, relating to , or suggestive of war. Relating to or connected with the armed forces or the profession of arms. Characteristic or befitting a warrior" is the definition of the word martial that is more in line with what we are talking about when we define our Martial arts program. You say "The moves taught can get you seriously hurt in a real situation." During my experience teaching MCMAP, I see countless Marines that have never raised a hand in violence much less been in a fight. The MCMAP program teaches Marines techniques of close combat that will benefit the unit in case of hand to hand combat. But, hand to hand combat is only a small part of a martial culture. If you think that, with M16 in hand, I am going to lay my weapon down to engage my enemy with my fist..... i don't think so. What is the real situation that you were talking about? Maybe you were thinking about being in a bar fight somewhere? You say "The syllabus is thought completely wrong in most cases." This doesn't even make sense. So, I assume you mean taught instead of thought. Maybe some specific instances of what you are taking about. You say, "I believe the program needs reform." I agree, nothing's perfect. Everything could use improvement. Maybe you could give some examples of how to make it better. It doesn't take much intelligence to sit back, point at something, and say it's not perfect. Here's one thing that I think should be improved. Why do we concentrate so much on MCMAP in MOS's not even close to the fight, when we have Sergeants out there that can't even load a frequency into a radio or call in a 9 line to MEDEVAC a wounded Marine. Maybe we should worry about training across the board, stuff like CQB, EMP courses and the like. Training that we are more likely to use anyway. Quotes that weren't yours were taken from Martial Arts Instructor's lesson plan MAI-09 and the American Heritage College Dictionary.
Your post tells me two things.... 1. You have penis envy of the Marines 2. You think the Navy is full of NASTY fat asses that fight like girls BTW...if you have to ask if an hour of PT a day is good for you?????? come on man...get off your ass and get to the gym. Are they both true? You be the judge.
Along these lines: What would be the best way to go about doing MCMAP while on PTAD waiting for TBS? I was thinking contacting local NROTC programs and seeing if they had any instructors.
Unless you plan on instructing at TBS, it isn't worth getting your belt before you go, since EVERYONE has to go through Tan (maybe Gray now too?). The students that had Green Instructor and higher assisted the MACE with teaching, but still had to put in the time.
Well, our report date is March 30th, so we have a while. I've obviously never done MCMAP but we figured that's enough time to go beyond tan.
A buddy of mine in Golf just finished MCMAP last week and said that they split everyone up who had belts already to work on their next belt. Must be a new thing and not a bad idea in my opinion.
Just a waste of friggin time. When I was at TBS, there was talk that they were going to have more training mixed into the MCMAP week and not just the whole day on LZ 6 thing. Did that ever happen or is it just a week of hazing to get it done?!
Well that's a change in Marine Corps thinking... do something that actually makes sense! I wish I would have been able to work on my Gray instead of going through the motions of Tan training.
MCMAP = sanctioned hazing and little more than that. If you want to learn how to defend yourself in hand to hand combat then go to your local martial arts instructor. *eye gouge* *eye gouge* *break fall*
Last I heard, each TBS company makes their own decision about what to do with guys who already have their belts, so don't plan on going up a belt if you show up a sandy ninja. Since all Marines in the Wing are now required to have a Gray belt, I see no reason not to get your Gray while waiting for API (if you have the time). Just do it after NOMI, in case you get a few bumps and bruises.
It seems like getting ahead is a good idea. If nothing else, if you come to TBS with tan or gray already, you'll build proficiency doing the haze-ex while doing the week of training at TBS. I'm actually not opposed to MCMAP for excessive aviator injuries. My thoughts on that are along the lines of Col Jessup. "You mean we have a United States Marine who can't run from point A to point B without hurting himself?" I just think it's an obscenely complicated system where they added ninja moves so that there would be enough gradeable items to have a belt system. Marines don't need to be able to win a movie fight with Jackie Chan. They only need to be able to get an opponent down on the ground and stomp on his face. That only takes maybe 10 or so moves, that should be simple and easy to remember under stress, not a litany of items where memory is more important than execution. "Perform a double reverse underhand backward arm lock from the sitting position with supine opponent...check!" We used to have a system like that--the LINE program, which was based on techniques proven in WWII. Now, we have these MACE guys who get paid to go to UFC, Muy Thai, and for all I know, Kumite (which doesn't actually exist, BTW) to cook up new crap to pack into MCMAP. That said, I think that IF YOU HAVE TIME TO KILL in a pool, you may as well try to advance in belt. As a new check-in lieutenant you all start out equally worthless. If you show more initiative and willingness to work and improve than your peers, as exemplified by MCMAP belts, being done with EWS, speaking Pashtun, whatever, it can't be a bad thing. Just don't lord your ninja status over others like you're a trained killer or anything, because your primary weapons system is your T/M/S, not your hands, a rifle, pistol, or whatever else.
Very few Marines have the time to gain mastery so what is the point. I am sure we will do better as a force learning 10 moves vice the extra sh!t. It does not help that they brought back one of the big advocates of the program to run it as a GS 13 . That ensured that the program will NEVER die.
