I don't really have anything against MCMAP per se (although as a pilot, I think my time could be better spent with more MOS related training/classes. The problem I have is that it's just one more of the many requirements that keeps getting added on that, in the grand scheme of things, is not really that important to what I do. Nothing ever gets subtracted. We're already busy enough in the day-to-day fight of running a squadron and there is constant noise (MCMAP, BST, Motorcycyle Safety, Info Assurance Training, the UnderSecretary of Defense questionaire that he won't stop sending me, GWOE 1-4, etc). All of this stuff ends up getting done, check in the box style, but I'm not sure of what real training benefit it all has. We end up being the jack-of-all trades, but the master of none. We talk a lot about safety, but we could use more of this time to focus on pilot/aircrew training. In the end, from our little piece of the pie, this is what is really important.
Agreed on that. I think that the internet has made it even easier for the powers-that-be to add yet another recurring training requirement to the plate. If a unit actually spent the full amount of time required to fulfill every training requirement, it wouldn't accomplish anything but the mandated training. Our MEU CO's motto is "Brilliance at the Basics." Taken to its logical end, I couldn't agree more with it.
Not enough can be said about adding more "useless" check in the box training that is required getting in the way of actual MOS training that my Marines actually need to take to the fight. In the middle of my PTP I have spent more time sending my Marines to required safety stand downs, motorcycle safety tests, a command piss test, General XXXXXX's change of command, made sure they took eight different information assurance classes, CFT fam, people need to learn to say no. /end rant.
I'm all about body hardening ... I usually start with my liver, and then depending on the company, move on to other parts...
In my experience, unfortunately, it seems that the dumbass in MCMAP is similar to the dumbass who drinks and drives. They both end up hurting the opposing party while frequently walking away from the situation unscathed.
There is always the time factor for advancement to another belt. If it is going to be done right, time needs to be put in to legitimately become proficient in each belt. Time is something that is hard to come by as a junior company grade in a squadron. As a field grade, it is next to impossible to find, for all the previously mentioned reasons in this discussion. Visions without resources equate to hallucinations.
The Brit in my squadron makes me spell grey this way. In turn he started pronouncing "schedule" correctly.
With ZBone's approval I added a poll to his thread. All posts were copied from the original thread. You can pick multiple options which I hope are self-explanatory. If you aren't a Marine, don't be an idiot and vote trying to be cute.
I'm not used to these fancy multiple choice polls (plus my reading comprehension is questionable at best) - I plan to move up as well.
Is there anything like this in the Navy? What kind of self defense training to sailors/officers receive? I wanna learn to kill too!
Theoretically yes...in SWO land all armed watchstanders(that includes O-1 up to O-3) need to go through the requisite courses...problem is training is usually done onboard the ship, and sustainment training is usually minimal.
MCMAP is sanctioned hazing, pure and simple. Not there's anything inherently wrong with that. 99% of us won't remember crap about the kung fu moves a month after doing it unless you keep training for it, which is a pipe dream at best. I thought it was pretty fun, although a ball buster PT wise. If you do it with yur Marines, you'll get to know them better and they'll get to see that you give a shit and can do what they do. If you are the senior man, DON"T be afraid to step in and stop the insanity. If it looks stupid and no-kidding dangerous, then sack up and stop it. That goes double for heat related injuries. For all of you that are having trouble comprehending the "pilots can't afford to get hurt" argument......all I can say is wait until you are a schedule writer in a fleet squadron someday and you'll see what we mean. One missing "key person" can swing a moderately large wrecking ball through your schedule/weekly/monthly training plan. God help you if you lose somebody right before deployment. You'll see. This whole program isn't something to be overly spooled up about. The MARADMIN that told us to get these belts (again) has no teeth to it (again). At least for officers, it doesn't seem to mean squat whether you do any of it or not. The basic jist of the MARADMIN is "Everybody has to be a gray belt by 1 Jan 09 or.............we'll tell you to do it by 1 Jan 10...........and we'll mean it this time". Yeah, right. There won't ever be any real consequences for not doing it, other than losing some of your respect from your Marines that did it. That alone is reason enough to do it anyway. I'm a green belt, and if I had to take the tan belt test today I'd be shocked and amazed if I passed.
Not that I have to do MCMAP, but I found this on the sked, and thought it funny. Names altered to protect the guilty.
You'd be surprised at what they are doing in the "Young Marines" these days. I'd bet he has a scuba bubble and a lead sled too. Edit: This is a pretty damn good thread. Good points by all.
When I was an Brown Belt Instructor in the Marines, the people who would commonly get hurt or hurt others were those who thought they didn't need to pay attention and do what they were told. Also, people who didn't stay in good shape and then tried to participate as if it was a joke would get hurt. I agree that getting your Marines to retain the skills is difficult, but it seems like most commands (except for infantry units) treat it like a joke. The ideal setup is a certain amount of time spent on learning new skills, and then at least one PT session a week can be devoted to retention. Final statement: most injuries happen, if at all, during ground fighting, which you are not supposed to participate in until you ARE a gray belt.
My pet peeve with this whole mandated deelio (and thats what it is) is that it makes tan belt redundant. If they want everyone to know the grey syllabus, why dont they just put them together to make the basic course? Then if some mos branch wants to go above and beyond the basics (which would be a good idea for the ground pounders) then they can do that. the rest of us can be content with the basics (unless you want to be moto). Im not arguing against the program, i kind of like learning things like the Flying Tiger Claw Takedown and as Marines we should have some knowlege of hand to hand fighting beyond what we learned in the schoolyard; i just think this execution is dumb. Oh, and uh, put me on the side of "I dont wanna get hurt to badly" as well. Again, thats fine for you moto 'i want to crack I-beams with my forehead' types, but I kind of want to stay in aviation.
How did I not see this before?! I suppose its a bit late to come up with a witty response at this point. Anyway, I checked into MATSG-21 on Friday and everyone who doesn't have a grey was told they'd have to have it by the end of the fiscal year. If I recall correctly they're offering MCMAP sessions for 3 hours M-F. Oo-rah.
My squadron did the full 40 hrs of MCMAP jammed into one week approx 2.5 weeks before chopping out for a deployment. All told we had somewhere on the order of 15 injuries ranging from concussions to broken legs and broken collar bones. There were a lot of flash reports that came out of that week.
1. If you're a lieuie waiting for API for over a month, you've already done the NOMI thing, you don't have a stash job that takes up 40 hours a week, and you don't get your gray belt, you might be just plain lazy. 2. If you go med-down from Semper Fu, you might be using terrible technique, or are uber-out of shape, in which case you should probably not take the PFT/CFT either. 3. If your squadron will come to a grinding halt in your absence, you need to sell back some leave and get your arse promoted. 4. It's not like this is the dumbest thing you've ever had to do to fulfill a training requirement. 5. Better do it now, because the next Commandant will bump the requirement up a belt, and then you'll be really screwed. 6. Think of all those times in the bar you really wish you remembered how to do an eye gouge. Train for the future. 7. What would Jesus do?
Like in the parasail thread, you have to think twice about training that will break someone if improperly conducted. Students will make mistakes when they learn, and relying on a student to use proper technique when they are learning is a poor safeguard - it definitely shouldn't be the only one. Especially if you fail to use proper technique and break your dummy through no fault of his own.
There is no MARADMIN yet! I currently work at ATB TECOM and the MARADMIN requiring that all aviators be grey and all grunts be green is coming...... like it or not. While aviators are not grunts we are still Marines. Just like all Marines must now complete the new CFT we should participate in programs like MCMAP as well. I say should because that is my opinion. It is a great opportunity to work with young Marines and share important tie-ins with them as well. I have a paper written by Major "Boo Boo" Yi, which explains the importance of MCMAP and its value to all including aviators. Anyone interested let me know and I will post it. I definately agree that MCMAP is absolutely a perishable skill if not sustained, however, I believe that it is a great way to remember that we are not just aviators but also Marines. Just my opinion.
