Brett has also operated from many USAFBs and INTL civilian airports, and never once requested permission to start engines. I'm guessing the E-2/C-2 crowd doesnt either. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that since you guys are all brainwashed/programmed to request permission, nobody has ever tried to do otherwise, thus nobody has had their "nuts hammered" for not doing it. I think that's a made up concept and that nobody would bat an eye in 95% of places. Since we've turned this into a hate on VP thread (smiles, of course), here's a novel idea: instead of being mindless automatons, why not perform extra steps only when they're required? If you are such a slave to standardization and habit patterns, I wonder what you do when the requirements of your mission requires flexibility, or the ability to adapt to novel situations. In short, I'm saying that you're all better than that. Give yourselves some credit here. Brett
Yeah, sorry 'bout that, but it's sure a lot more insightful than a bunch of folks giving students "advice" on how to game the system... Should have locked this when it became a "what are my chances" thread, but we didn't.....
We've actually, for the most part, broken this habit in Jax. No one calls for starts there, anymore. We do on deployment by the nature of where we operate from (some fields that do not float or make their own wind require starts to be called for...gasp! the boat is not necessarily the end all be all of aviation! for shame!) The world has not ended since we stopped calling for starts. If we could convince the jax helos inbound to the seawall or crossing under us at 500' to talk on uniform, we'd have an all around happy airspace thing going on. One of my pet peeves is radio diarrhea. I think my reputation has begun to precede me with the 2 and 3Ps to unfuck their comms, especially when dealing with the boat or any coord ops environment. I get angry when a winged aviator sounds like a primary stud every time they key the mike. I blame the lack of CP time at VP-30, but some is just plain old retardation.
Brett has probably broken many host country's / international airfield's regulations / procedures without knowing it. Many international airfields require engine start permission from ground.
That was partially my point. If those were the rules and I broke them regularly without so much as an anoyed radio call from Ground then, more than likely, nobody cares. Maybe we're all just so bad ass in our jets that nobody will dare to challenge us. That's probably it. Brett
Actually, as a COD guy, we do ask for permission to start engines, WHEN we are at a field that requires it. Otherwise, we just do it. Just like Brett is asking the P-3 guys to do...
Norfolk always required "Griffin xx radio check engine start LP-27" Which meant about 5 minutes of confusion on ground, if they answer at all Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
Definately agreed that you could probably get away with it if they don't ask for it on the radio. But most times in my experience on an AFB has been something like this post clearance, "Readback correct, contact ground for engine start and taxi."
A lot of times a pilot trainer will end on a no flap or 2 engine landing. He/she may have had every intention of making it a full stop but were just not in a position to make a safe landing and had to wave off. Thats my best guess.
Tried it at Bahrain International because ground was so clogged with heavies requesting starts, pushback, taxi, etc. They made us shut down and sit on deck for almost an hour before they would even acknowledge us on the radio. Probably the only day in my life I've been thankful to operate out of Shaikh Isa.
Is it considered bad form to try and rush to get this stuff out? I mean, it's a 3 engine landing, it's not like you're plummeting from the sky and you've got the time to brief it right.
Not to be confused with the 20 minute long comm check that occurs when a P-3 turns over to another P-3 on-station. I gained contact on a sub but couldn't report it since we were being 'comm jammed' by two P-3's!
I just got this.....well done sir. Cleverly inserted as well....I read past it and then came back to it once I got the song.
Not to my recollection. Otherwise how the fuck would I launch out of uncontrolled fields, or the boat. Then again.. I never memorized stuff beyond limits and EPs, because the RAG had a "STOP" manual that almost contradicted NATOPS in more than one spot. Pleas post Chapter & Verse where a Radio Check is a NATOPS requirement. I threw out my E-2 NATOPS after I used it for DITY weight, but I never remember seeing that, and can't really check. You sure it's not STOP or an SOP? (Neat fact.. 120's STOP manual does not have the force of law outside 120.. But try telling a RAG IP or RAG wannabe that)
It's always fun playing the I'm tx no rx on this radio, but the aircraft I'm relieving is tx no rx on another radio (or vice versa, or whatever) game. Broke ass comm systems are awesome!
Hell yes it is. Not sure how the other 4-engine bubbas do it, but every couple of flight hours across the country, there is a J-model base somewhere where we could potentially get support. If I find myself in a 3-engine situation and my wing is not on fire, i'm going to these locations: 1. home 2. USMC J-model base 3. USAF or USCG J-model base. Even with three engines, once I get all procedures completed and she is all trimmed up, I am allowed to turn on the autopilot and fly however long I need to. Now if it turned into a 2-engine scenario...
Chapter 7 Shore Based/General Procedures - Pilots 7.9 Before Starting Engines 6. Establish ICS communications with at least one member of the CIC crew, if present, and confirm if they are ready to start. In addition, a UHF/VHF radio check with ground control facility is required.
