Jobs for NFO after term of service.

Discussion in 'Naval Flight Officer (NFO)' started by mark.h[usmc], Jun 14, 2012.

  1. mark.h[usmc] New Member

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    I just recently got accepted into OCS as an NFO and I am currently pursuing a degree in Law Enforcement but I am unsure what kind of jobs would be available after my commission is up, and I am unsure if changing my major would be a wise thing to do. I was thinking air marshalls possibly, but I still feel that even that might be a stretch. I was also considering getting either my masters in law enforcement or a minor in aviation during or after service. Any ideas of jobs or things I should do?
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    phrogdriver liberty risk

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    Well, first, get your commission, work hard in fight school, then be the best NFO you can be. The "jobs for ex-NFO" thing has been hit on in other threads, so do a search and come back, though the gist is that you'll be an experienced officer and capable of anything on the outside that requires leadership and management ability.

    As far as degree, do whatever you're interested in for undergrad, i.e. if you're passionate about something, you'll probably do better in it. For grad degrees, DON'T get an aviation degree (how do you get a "minor" postgrad anyway?). It's pointless. You'll have all the aviation experience you'll ever want, and a degree in that will just pigeonhole yourself from potential employers. Law enforcement? It's a dubious even as an undergrad degree, to be honest (phys ed was taken?), and LE above the local level won't care. Off-duty cops get that degree to advance their careers--federal law enforcement wants critical languages, accounting, computer skills, etc.

    Air marshall? That's got to be the worst job in law enforcement. Riding coach, NOT drinking, and not doing anything, ever? A LOT of those guys are using it as a steppingstone to an 1811-coded criminal investigator gig at another agency. Those run the gamut, and there are better websites than this to get the gouge.

    Lastly, you might just decide that you like the service. Almost everyone joins thinking they'll leave, then a good portion of them stay the duration.
  2. phrogpilot73 Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, I've met a bunch of Air Marshals in the reserves. And I have yet to meet one that didn't love his job.
  3. mark.h[usmc] New Member

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    Thank you for some of the input, but I do go to a very good school for Law Enforcement and Justice Administration degrees and from my research air marshalls make around 100k a year depending on their position and most of them from what I have met enjoy their jobs(possibly because they have a light workload and good payment). And don't get me wrong, I have a tone of respect for cops but I would go to prison before I thought about becoming cop. I would have a hard time not mixing all the feelings that come with being a police officer with my everyday life at home. Anyway you make a valid point with the aviation minor but I still want to find something that would either mix well with the two or just aviation in general.
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    wink VS NFO. Blue and Gold Off. Former Recruiter.

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    Posted a reply in the other thread you posted in. Don't do that again. Just wait for a response, it will come. All that said, the comments above are worthwhile with one exception. FAMS fly first class in almost every case. But they don't get to drink the free booze and rarely get any shut eye. As an airline pilot and with some law enforcement experience, I'd say it isn't a great job for a guy interested in law enforcement, investigation, or counter terrorism. It is an odd job among the federal LE options. Some guys love it but I don't know why.
  4. mark.h[usmc] New Member

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    Oh no I was not being impatient, but I am new to the site and I realized after I posted on the other thread that I could just start a new one.
  5. NavyOffRec Well-Known Member

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    If you want to go into Law Enforcement after service you will make more money in something other than government law enforcement, in general with the federal government you start at a GS-7 or GS-9, if you start civilian law enforcement at a medium to large city you are looking at 60K even up to 80K per year right out of the academy.
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    wink VS NFO. Blue and Gold Off. Former Recruiter.

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    Check for pm later
  6. Brunes Active Member

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    You probably need to worry about OCS, flight school, and several years of obligated service before you worry about what jobs are put there to follow a job you don't have yet, eh??
  7. jtmedli Playing the game...

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    You need to become very familiar with the phrase "Alligator closest to the boat".
  8. Renegade One Well-Known Member

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    Go do that. May the Force be with you.
    (edit)
    See comment above. Then underline it. Maybe put it in BOLD.
    Wait...I'll save you the trouble: (edit)
    If you think Naval Aviation is just some sort of a stepping-stone, "Looks Good on the Resume" ticket to whatever the hell it is you really want to do...PLEASE...DO MANY FOLKS A FAVOR...take your career aspirations and ultimate goals somewhere else...and leave Naval Aviation to those with a fire in their belly who view this career as an end in itself.
    Very respectfully submitted, ....
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    phrogdriver liberty risk

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    Does everyone have to join with the goal of making it a career? I'd venture to say that most don't. I'm not in favor of just getting a military check-in-the-box, but if one wants to serve for a few years and do something interesting at the same time, then so be it. That's not to say that pertains to the OP, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with the military not having to be a person's ultimate end state.
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    Flash SEVAL/ECMO

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    If you are special agent I believe in most agencies you rapidly move up to GS-12 (about 3 years I think) and if you are a criminal investigator you get 'availability pay' which is 25% extra on top of your base pay. So starting out your pay may be a bit lower but you make it up fast.
  9. NavyOffRec Well-Known Member

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    I missed this but 100K, sure..... they are GS employees, in the GS system for LE jobs you start at GS7 that pays without locality pay just under 34K per year, if you have a masters GS9 just over 41K per year, you can get higher when you start IF you have prior LE experience, to get close to 100K you have to be up there in the GS schedule for instance in Wash DC you need to be mid step GS13 to break 100K.
  10. NavyOffRec Well-Known Member

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    I know those that have moved up fast, they however moved to get that, but I know CI's and they have made no mention of availability pay, that may depend on the agency. I believe most top out at GS12 until they get into "in charge" jobs, so as a GS12 they would top out under 100K in most areas.
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    Flash SEVAL/ECMO

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    I believe the move up to GS-12 as a special agent-criminal investigator is a bit like getting to O-3 in the military for most agencies, pretty much automatic unless you screw up (here is the US Marshal promotion schedule for new agents). Availability pay is an federal government rule, if they are the right category of federal criminal investigators and law enforcement, they have been 'certified' and meet the work rules for it they rate it. Guess your buddies didn't work enough overtime!
  11. NavyOffRec Well-Known Member

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    I will ask but I bet you are right given the jobs they are currently in most are standard work hours for them, last I talked to one she was about to have a baby, she is an IRS CI, one other is NCIS, she is a GS12 and is prior USN enlisted, anytime a new assignment came up she would move for it, the other guy is NCIS and just last year moved to take a SAIC position and I lost track of him.

    They all love their jobs.
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    Catmando Keep your knots up.

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    One career at a time, grasshopper. One at a time. Long term plans and goals are fine. But those who overlook the real challenges at hand are ever more vulnerable for failure. Focus at what is in front of you right now, and in the immediate future, and not many years hence.

    Pick what you want to be, and just do it! Don't waste your time and many others by taking up a slot, just as a stepping stone to be something in the future you will likely be changing your mind about anyway.
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  12. Kow-aka "Spanky Well-Known Member

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    This guy sounds like a fake...and/or a tool to me: read what he wrote, and his tone to the folks who are trying to assist.

    I have a hard time with anyone who use 3 "and''s in one sentence, starts another with And, and says he would rather go to jail then become a cop because he could not separate the two from his every day life at home... goes to ANY kind of school. This bub probably knows a lot about a "light workload". I dare you to go up to an Federal Air Marshall and tell them they have a "light workload..."
  13. Mos Member

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    This thread may be getting a bit old, but I'll go ahead and post a question in here and avoid clogging the forum with new threads about job prospects: has anyone experienced or heard of any NFOs going into aerial firefighting? I've read a little about the air tactical group supervisors that fly for CALFIRE and other agencies during fire season. Sounds like generally those guys come from solid firefighting backgrounds, but I'm wondering if there are any exceptions, as some of the elements of their job sound similar to what P-3 and E-2 NFOs do.
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    Brett327 Magnum!

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    This has interested me as well, but haven't really looked into it much.
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    Brett327 Magnum!

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    I do know that a lot of the aviation in the Northwest is handled by contractors like Evergreen (and others) vice USFS or the state forestry guys. The USA jobs site has some interesting stuff from time to time, as do the contractor sites. I also know that some of the federal LE agencies like ICE/DHS operate aircraft and employ non-pilot flight crew members.
  14. BleedGreen Active Member

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    I know this thread is a little old but I thought I would share what I have learned about aerial firefighting.

    When talking about the USFS, all but two of their helicopters and all their tankers are on a contract between a civilian company and the agency. For the light and medium helicopters, the crew will consist of a pilot, helicopter manager, and anywhere from 2-7 crew members. The crew members will deploy the bucket, direct water drops, and perform other fireline duties. The helicopter manager's duties are the most comparable to an NFO; which include communications, navigation, while serving as a liaison for the agency and contractor. A fire background required to be a manager because they too have to deploy with the crew and act as the supervisor while on the fireline. The large helicopters, skycranes, firehawks, k-maxx, etc will have a PIC and SIC flying while a manager stays with the ground crew.
    As of 2012 the USFS has reduced the amount of tanker they have oncontract drastically. The most noticeable reduction in the tanker contracts was the decision to no longer renew any of the P3 contracts. The USFS still relies on the p-2v Neptunes but that is soon changing to turbine powered aircaft. I'm not 100% sure but I believe the P-2v's only have a PIC and possibly a SIC but no manager that flies with the aircraft. They also have a few oddball contracts from single engine air tankers all the way to the DC-10 (sorry no more 747's as tankers). Aside from tankers, the only other fixed wing aircraft the USFS relies on are twin engine commanders or king air's that fulfill the role of an air attack. They orbit the fire while orchestrating the aircraft and ground resources, which also requires an extensive fire background. The air attack is usually a GS 10-12 that worked his or her way up in the fire service.

    Cal Fire does things a little differently but a fire background is still required for any crew or managerial roles. Their helicopters are all bell 205's (except San Diego has a 214) with a crew consisting of two helicopter manager and a handful of firefighters. They fly with two managers because one deploys with the crew and one flies with the pilot to communicate and navigate. Although a manager has to stay in the helicopter at all times, they must be able to fulfill both roles for staffing purposes.
    As for Cal Fire's S-2's, they only require a pilot to fly, communicate, and drop retardant. They also fly the OV-10's as an air attack platform with a pilot and an air attack. The air attack is usually a retired USFS air attack with an extensive fire background or a former helicopter manager who came up through the ranks.
    I hope this sums up any questions you may have had but if you have anymore to ask, feel free!!
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    phrogdriver liberty risk

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    I've seen many helo firefighting jobs posted, so I've been curious about it. They always require USFS cards and previous experience firefighting. Seems like a chicken/egg problem. How hard is it to get a card and break into that business?
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    Brett327 Magnum!

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    I wonder how the USFS requirements apply to the contract folks. I'm still ~10 years away from seriously pursuing post-Navy employment, but the fire fighting thing does still interest me.

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