Hello all... Longtime reader, 1st time poster here. So here's my question... What happens to phase 2 jet attrites (CQ) that are accepted into P-3 training? How long does it take them to wing? what are the syllabus reqs, etc? is it modified? Also, what are the current P-3 stations after the FRS (I heard there were/are some closures/bracs)? Thanks!
I can speak to the training end.. We had a couple roll thru when I was at VT-31, one CQ attrite, one ACM that was going E2s. The E2 guy was on a slightly shorter E2 syllabus as he was already instrument rated. The P3 guy was on his "own program" with basically all the FAMs and ONAVs but prof-advanced out of some instrument stuff, but not all. Coming thru as a winged helo dude enroute to Krock, I went under the E2 syllabus but also "prof advanced" out of flights whenever possible. It's a whole nother world there, in mentality, so I would find an E2 guy and pick their brains for how it works there.
If a guy doesn't CQ, I'm sure he can't go E2 or C2. So pretty much the only flying option is P-3's (if they allow the transition) or E-6's. However, I'm curious to know the specifics of time to train, etc for someone doing the P-3 transition so late in the game.
The P-3 duty stations are Widbey Island, Washington, Jacksonville, Fl, Brunswick Maine (this is bracked, but they are still sending folks there) and K-bay, Hawaii
Good luck getting a flying job if you attrite.....I haven't heard of any of those lately. I know of a guy who winged, went to Lemoore, attrited out of the Charlie RAG, went P-3's and is now a T-45 IP.
Nah, if your just a CQ attrite, the Navy will find something to do with you....flying I mean. If your just a normal attrite, you're f'd. I know a guy who got all the way through CQ and ACM and winged. BUT, for some reason or another his back couldn't handle the g's, he was fairly tall and uncharacteristically skinny, I'm fairly positive the lat'd him to P-3's. I also know a guy who made it all the way through Jet Advanced and didn't have an NSS high enough to graduate, and he didn't, and he's no longer in the military. I also know a guy who scored so low in C-130 land that he finished the program, but didn't score high enough to wing, and he's no longer flying. Weird shiat happens man.
So I guess you can attrite at any point in the program or the fleet? Just curious what do they do with folks who attrite out of something other than jets...say you can't land a herc/p-3 or for some reason you suck in a fleet helo?
Just like everything in the Navy, it's about timing. Just like FLY_USMC was talking about, at any given time, an attrite may be sent to almost anywhere. A few years back, we were overmanned everywhere, so they were looking for reasons to get rid of people. Attriting from any program was a good reason. Shortly before that, a lateral transfer was likely to happen for almost any reason that you couldn't finish the one you were in. I don't really know how it is right now because it seems like they've made it impossible to get rid of anybody in any program. I've seen guys get Fenab'd twice in the RAG and just get sent back through the program. Timing, timing, timing
I have NEVER seen a helo attrite be offered a chance to do anything else. Just the way it is.. God help you if you select helos, and can't figure out how to hover.
MasterBates, how many people attrite from helos? I'm not being smart, I really just don't know. I know that there used to be about 1 every other class from the jet pipeline. Just curious. These days, they want all the attrition in API and primary, so it is really hard to attrite anybody at my level.
During my time going through advanced, I knew one guy for certain that was attrited, and I want to say another guy was on the brink when I left. I will say that the way TIMS is set up and MPTS is written, it seems like it's harder to get attrited out than before. Of course, I'm only comparing that to my experience in primary (without TIMS) but being unsat on a flight or brief doesn't seem to be as harmful as it once was.
The way someone very wise explained it to me is...You have to earn your wings every time you walk to the aircraft. Makes sense to me and seems like the way it ought to be...really hit home here (VP-30) with a bunch of young guys and gals in the back.
And even some OLD guys back there. I always tried to get to know something about the PPCs in the squadron and trusted most of them to keep the 2/3Ps on the straight and narrow. Your point of view is spot on and as an old tuibe rat, I appreciate it.
Professional Aviation stories In October, 2007, Lieutenant Junior GradeJoel Gow demonstrated exceptional airmanship and decision making under perilous flying conditions when, on an instructional familiarization flight with a new student naval aviator, his T-45C Goshawk ingested a turkey buzzard directly into the engine intake at approximately 1200 feet AGL following initial takeoff. Noting an immediate loss of RPM, thrust, and EGT over-temperature, he took the flight controls from the student and immediately brought the aircraft around 180 degrees for a modified precautionary approach to the runway from which he had just departed. Delaying re-configuration of the aircraft for landing until the last possible minute due to quickly failing engine power and deteriorating airspeed, he performed a textbook field arrested landing. Once in the gear, he quickly secured the engine and executed emergency shutdown procedures to prevent any further damage to the aircraft. His swift and decisive actions saved two lives and an airplane. This is the kind of NATOPS knowledge, quick thinking, and decisive action that Naval Aviators are famous for! at altitude, guad
Great story. Is that an air medal citation? The video is on here in another thread. Could somebody with mod powers move it into that thread? Welcome aboard, Sir.
I also know of one who attrited while I was in the HT's he was in my class. He had some problems in VT's. Got to the HT's downed his pre-check....then got it together....downed his first check. Passed and solo'd then downed a couple of flights before his BI check. That was pretty much it for him. On the other foot there was another STUD there that seemed like he was failing a flight a week. He was always in the penalty suit and making the walk, im not sure if he ever got his wings though. It seems like someone failing that much should have been attrited. Not everyone can figure this job out sometimes.
That was indeed the air medal writeup. Not that many people see the citations or hear about great things being done by Naval aviators, especially in the training command. That's why I thought I'd share it in a warriors forum. at altitude, guad
rgr HD I've heard rumors CNATRA arced around Airwarriors, so it's true; heard some more senior gentlemen lurked also ... S/F
Go back and check. I already fixed it myself. (thanks anyway, though) Obviously, I had no idea. No offense intended. sir.
