http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...ldier-kills-2-US-soldiers/UPI-66781330001572/ I'm getting kind of tired of hearing how some ANA asshole we trained turned his weapons on the Americans. When will we learn?
And yet a not insignificant portion of the country wants to make flag-burning illegal. Even though the proper method of disposal....is to burn it. We're not as different as you'd think or protest to be. Everyone has their sacred cows.
Pushing for legislation against something that offends you is somewhat different than rioting and murdering people because of something that offends you.
I'm pretty sure I could find some places in this country where I would suffer assault or worse for burning a bible out in public. I don't think I'd even have to look very hard.
In this case, we're not talking about an act done deliberately and antagonistically in public inciting a violent crime of passion. Qu'rans were inadvertently, privately disposed of in a way that was not technically correct (nor intentionally or flagrantly disrespectful), and it has resulted in rioting mobs and pre-meditated multiple homicides. I think trying to draw this parallel is a stretch.
Despite their ability to repel invaders for centuries & their ability to murder each other since time immemorial, the average afghan is as dumb as a fencepost and less well-educated. I think the finer distinctions of Koran disposal are pretty much lost on them - which is no excuse for their stupid behavior or our president's in apologizing to these jerks the same day they kill two of our servicemen. You would think the World's Smartest Man could see a slight difference between an inadverdent book-burning and cold-blooded murder.
Yes there are outliers in every situation. The difference is in the States the outliers are the crazy ones and in the other case the outliers are the sane. I'll make a deal with you Brett, you go to any city of Afghanistan, get a crowd gathered, and then burn a Koran. I'll then go to whatever city in the States you'd like and do the same with a Bible. Then we'll see who fairs the best. We all know what the results would be.
The parallel is that the savage Muslims aren't the only ones capable of reacting with violence when their sacred texts are handled inappropriately. Different circumstances, yes, but it's not intended to be a perfect analogy. I think we can agree that violence over religious or moral "offense" isn't appropriate (or civilized) under any circumstances. Seeking to understand or explain people's motives isn't condoning their actions. Hopefully, if we understand people's motivations, we can avoid unforced errors that ultimately make our jobs more challenging. I guarantee that's what GEN Allen is thinking right about now. I know it would be a whole lot easier to say "fuck 'em" and kill the entire population, but that's not really an option. @ Pilotman: I don't disagree with you there, definitely a matter of degree. I'm not saying we're as bad as they are, just that we're capable under the right circumstances. Brett
We have a federally funded Crucifix in a jar of urine. Body count…..0. Let’s stop the moral equivalence crap. Don’t get me wrong, whatever was done was incredibly stupid, but the reaction to it is what’s wrong with that little slice of the world.
It's not moral equivalence, as I already stated. Reading comprehension, people. I know it's easier to be polarized about this, but I think the nuance is worth considering. Know your enemy, and know yourself. I think some Asian guy said that.
You know respectful burning is actually the proper way to dispose of a Koran? This was a bunch of savages looking for a reason to be pissed off. Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk
Back to my original thesis - fuck them. These people have a track record of flying off the handle at the slightest provocation (kill a few nuns completely unrelated to a picture some Dutch cartoonist drew? Why not!). Roger, something we need to understand and avoid if we're forced to deal with them (which we are). Telling them to grow up won't work... They're like a poorly behaved child. You have to deal with them, you know if they don't get their ice cream they're going to throw a tantrum and wreck the dinner table, but you have to just clean up and move on. Wow, does that come across as ethnocentric or what? Well, i'm tired of looking for the moderate muslims in the middle east to stop the madness. I guess if you're moderate you've already bailed on that crap hole and come to the US. I could rant further, but it would accomplish nothing.
I get your point Brett .....but it was still a little bit of a moral equivalence. Never been a fan of said Asian guy. I'm more of a Grant/Sherman type.
Burning is acceptable, at least according to the engineer that was sitting across the desk from me when i posted it earlier. He's a devout Muslim, Sunni if it makes a difference. Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk
I agree, but the time to make that point was before we got involved in the proverbial "land war in Asia." The idea that we would convert these people into a functioning democracy was laughable from the outset, and now we're relearning just how difficult the COIN strategy is in a place that is diametrically opposed to us in so many ways. We overemphasized the notion that al Qaeda's sanctuary in Taliban led Afghanistan was somehow pivotal to their ability to plan and execute terrorist actions against the west. These things can be planned in any city in the world, using the internet to coordinate. In retrospect, a CT strategy (SOF/Reaper strikes and law enforcement) is a much better use of our resources and it focuses out efforts on the real bad guys. Brett
Isn't that a bit oxymoronic? Like almost perfect? Why no love for master Sun? The war colleges of all the services hold him in pretty high esteem. Anyhow, Sun Tzu is a theorist, Grant and Sherman were practitioners, perhaps strategists, but that's a stretch. Brett
No, Grant and Sherman were theorist, strategists and practitioners, they just didn't know it at the time. But I digress from the thread. Would like to discuss in a different forum.
So is there no excuse for what General Allen did then? The folks rioting are a minority, they are trying to reach the majority who aren't rioting in the streets.
