And thanks for playing. Someone's in a sour mood today.
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International Burn a Qu'ran Day
- Thread starter usmarinemike
- Start date
Thought I was going to see a link to a riot after a major sporting event (or during a major sporting event-hello soccer/futball).
While not an expert, it seems to me that
Option #1 is what we are doing
Option #2 is what we say we are doing
Option #3 while not a great one, would probably have saved many lives and we would be hard pressed to be in a worse situation after 10 years....
Overly simplistic I know... but lets go home
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Because Germany and Japan had the potential to be members of the modern world, and trading partners amongst other things.
Germany was a first world country, with people that wanted to be so again (just with a political system of our choice) and the Japanese were agruably first world, or on the cusp of it.
I'm convinced these people LIKE being backwards goat herders, just like some countries in Africa that are sitting on massive mineral/oil wealth, fertile land, and can't manage to feed their asses. (I'm looking at YOU Nigeria and Zimbabwe)
Germany was a first world country, with people that wanted to be so again (just with a political system of our choice) and the Japanese were agruably first world, or on the cusp of it.
I'm convinced these people LIKE being backwards goat herders, just like some countries in Africa that are sitting on massive mineral/oil wealth, fertile land, and can't manage to feed their asses. (I'm looking at YOU Nigeria and Zimbabwe)
We also destroyed Germany and Japan killing millions of civilians and breaking both countries will to resist.......not really an option anymore.
No, just some real stupid people brawling for some stupid shoes.
That's the big talk that one usually hears from non-military people in reference to any contingency. "Iran? Bomb them to the Stone Age! Libya? Bomb them to the Stone Age!"
While emotionally satisfying, it's ineffective for one thing, and morally wrong for another. Every bomb that kills a civilian replaces that civilian with 10 terrorists/insurgents. Unless you actually want to replace bombing them to the Stone Age with a wholesale extermination campaign of all Muslims, you're only increasing the problem by bombing indiscriminately. I'm not endorsing overly restrictive ROE, but much ROE stuff is valid, looking at the big picture. Besides, the last guy who tried to exterminate an entire religion of people isn't someone I want to emulate.
No, their corrupt governments and the local thugs like them being backwards goat herders. That's especially true in Africa.
In Afghanistan, we're seen as being in league with the corrupt government and that we can't protect them against the local thugs who rule their day-to-day lives, so they figure they may as well side with the thugs so they don't get killed the second our backs are turned.
No fatalities, no suicide bombs. I still call "more advanced," or maybe just "less expert in civil unrest." Do you get 72 Nike sneakers if you martyr yourself in a Foot Locker?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
My take is we are going to be viewed as the "Great Satan" (yeah, I know that's more of an Iranian catchphrase, but roll with it) no matter what we do to help OR hurt.
Yeah. Kill 'Em All, while an excellent Metallica album, is not the answer, but with my dealings with people from that part of the world, is some tribes/groups respect power, and view kindness as weakness. Others view hospitality as an honor that must be upheld.
Some may say "all cultures are equal".. But when a "culture" stones a girl for being raped.. Their culture sucks, and might just have to be dealt with like an unruly child.
It is not PC. Political Correctness will be the end of western civilization.
Yeah. Kill 'Em All, while an excellent Metallica album, is not the answer, but with my dealings with people from that part of the world, is some tribes/groups respect power, and view kindness as weakness. Others view hospitality as an honor that must be upheld.
Some may say "all cultures are equal".. But when a "culture" stones a girl for being raped.. Their culture sucks, and might just have to be dealt with like an unruly child.
It is not PC. Political Correctness will be the end of western civilization.
"Culture" is way too broad of a term to use here. What one person sees as culture, another sees as stereotype. Someone who's lived in Milton, FL his whole life would view American culture as one thing, and may not even see someone from big-city New York as being part of his culture. Middle-class folks in Turkey, for example, may see the religious-party in charge right now as anti-Turkish. Good luck having those two types of people in the same room together, let alone associate themselves with the same "culture". The same can be applied in Afghanistan, or anywhere else.
Part of the problem with trying to compare morality between "western" civilization and "others" is that there are legitimate historical and socio-economic differences between those cultures. Why don't the lunatics in the Westboro baptist church go bombing funerals, instead of protesting? Why don't fundamentalist anti-government types frequently go around shooting mailmen or state-workers? It's a question of economic status and cultural psychology.
They don't do it, at least partially, because there is too much to lose. Yeah they might get mad, go make some noise, go protest, etc... but most of them aren't going to go blow up an abortion clinic. Having the ability to adequately feed your family, economic stability, and a political system that allows for relative freedom and legal protection, means these people have less of a need to make extreme statements. A suicide bombing, or taking up arms against an invading army (which is how many Afghanis see us), is extreme. They have less to lose. Their societal structure, for lack of better words, sucks. There is a shitty government that can't protect its citizens. There are foreign soldiers on their lands. There is no money, no stability, no certainty. They're pissed. It wouldn't take a lot to push some of these desperate people over the edge. Hell, I'd be pretty damn tempted to fight if we were invaded by China, no matter how shitty my neighorhood was.
Is our society better than theirs? Is our culture superior? I don't know, but I sure as hell would rather be here. But think about what it'd be like if we grew up in the environment they did. It'd be a whole lot harder to stand a moral high ground. I'm damn proud to be an American, but I can't imagine what our people would devolve into if we lost everything, were invaded by a foreign power, or *gasp*, god-forbid, lose the internet or our iPods. I wouldn't trade being American for anything else in the world, but even the most "civilized" people are capable of devolving into animals under the right conditions.
Red Dawn? Fallout? That's what some of these countries are like overseas. Life would suck pretty bad. Where's the vault?
Part of the problem with trying to compare morality between "western" civilization and "others" is that there are legitimate historical and socio-economic differences between those cultures. Why don't the lunatics in the Westboro baptist church go bombing funerals, instead of protesting? Why don't fundamentalist anti-government types frequently go around shooting mailmen or state-workers? It's a question of economic status and cultural psychology.
They don't do it, at least partially, because there is too much to lose. Yeah they might get mad, go make some noise, go protest, etc... but most of them aren't going to go blow up an abortion clinic. Having the ability to adequately feed your family, economic stability, and a political system that allows for relative freedom and legal protection, means these people have less of a need to make extreme statements. A suicide bombing, or taking up arms against an invading army (which is how many Afghanis see us), is extreme. They have less to lose. Their societal structure, for lack of better words, sucks. There is a shitty government that can't protect its citizens. There are foreign soldiers on their lands. There is no money, no stability, no certainty. They're pissed. It wouldn't take a lot to push some of these desperate people over the edge. Hell, I'd be pretty damn tempted to fight if we were invaded by China, no matter how shitty my neighorhood was.
Is our society better than theirs? Is our culture superior? I don't know, but I sure as hell would rather be here. But think about what it'd be like if we grew up in the environment they did. It'd be a whole lot harder to stand a moral high ground. I'm damn proud to be an American, but I can't imagine what our people would devolve into if we lost everything, were invaded by a foreign power, or *gasp*, god-forbid, lose the internet or our iPods. I wouldn't trade being American for anything else in the world, but even the most "civilized" people are capable of devolving into animals under the right conditions.
Red Dawn? Fallout? That's what some of these countries are like overseas. Life would suck pretty bad. Where's the vault?
When is CinC going to apologize to the families of those two killed? I mean, he tripped over himself rushing to apologize for the burning.