How do women keep up???

I thought it had to do with the head to heart distance... low CG would seem to have little if nothing to do with it, from what I can think of it. Short means less vein/artery length between the heart and brain vessels, meaining oxygenated blood gets there ever so more quickly and easily. Women also have naturally "higher" hearts than men, why, I don't know.

~Nate

If you just want to fly planes and sit around and get fat, go fly for the airlines. Being a military officer should be for the elite, not just any joe fatty who may be able to fly. Part of being an officer is doing things that require discipline, dedication, and hard work... and surprise, they're not going to be easy. The Navy/Marine Corps aren't asking you to run any rediculous time... with a little training (and oh yes... hard work!) they're very attainable. Everyone seems to be all motivated ("oh keep trying... you can do it...") but then *****es when something may cause a bit of pain or is uncomfortable. Suck it up and run.
Additionally, there is a correlation between physical fitness and stamina required to do additional duties required of an offier. (ie standing watch all night, flying 16 hours then having to be OOD, not to mention all that mando fun time in the field you get if you're a Marine). If you're in better shape, your body can handle stresses better.
And finally, if you're so out of shape that you can't run a 9min mile, I really don't think you belong in a uniform.

And finally, if you're so out of shape that you can't run a 9min mile, I really don't think you belong in a uniform.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder how many field grade, general grade, and SNCO's we would lose........

Which makes me wonder... do they have treadmills on submarines? Or perhaps bicycles that are tied into the propeller for silent runs?

I ain't fat dumbass, I'm 5'3" and weigh 125 lbs. I can run for long periods of time (yesterday ran non stop for 45 min at about a 9:30 pace) I'm just slow. There is a difference.

And considering I'm just starting NROTC I have plenty of time to improve.

Actually, yes. There are bikes and row machines on the sub as well as a small set of weights. The amount of stuff depends on the size of the boat, but the Dallas, a fast attack, very small, had two bikes and a row machine plus some weights.

BTW-the only ones I ever saw on them were in my task unit (visiting divers and SEALs), but we were only onboard for 10 or so days at a time, they could get used when we aren't around.

That doesn't mean jack. I could run 15 minute miles for hours, just hope the guys after me are slow and enduarant too. (jokes)

Try running all out for shorter periods of time. Start trying to sprint 800s then 1600s then the mile and a half. It will get your body in a 'quicker' mentality. I know you can't sprint a mile and a half, but the 800 is very doable. Try running as fast as you can for 15 minutes. Its only 15 minutes so it won't be unbarable and you know you will be able to finish a mile and a half in that time. Anuyone have any short long distance training routines? I am just trying to remember the stuff we did for track in school to train for the mile.

what's really funny is seeing the re-designates who have been in the fleet for a few years and then have to run a 12:00 to get into API and the run times in an active duty squadron. You may be in shape when you get out of OCS but see who's still in shape now. 13:30 is fast for some of these turds who ran 10:00 in OCS. [Do Marine AIC officers even run the PRT? (inside joke, quit scratching your head)]

I thought W/S was weight standard. Like if you were too fat they would put your body fat instead.

How do women keep up???

Hmmm......


They don't!

I think most people will agree, even the women, that the bottom line is there should one single qualifying standard for both sexes. A minimum for the job period. Then give more points for excellent/outstanding/etc on a biased scale. If the males have to do 23 p/u min then the females should have to too. Same job, same standard to qualify. That's how they do it at dive school and no one there ever questions the females right to be diving beside him. SAME standard there. Although the males always out performed the females, the minimum standard was the same. Makes much more sense that way. IMHO

Kinda agree.

If you are gonna use the word "equality" so often, then have EQUAL standards.

Everyone has the same minimum, guys have to do more to max out. Only fair way.

You know, I don't mind discussions and what not, and most peoples opinions don't bother me, because they're just that, opinions. But what you said is f*cked up. If you look back to the original question, it was how do women keep up with the 3 mile battalion runs when they are done at an 8 minute a mile pace. I can run 3 miles at an 8 minute a mile pace, and I know a bunch of other women who can too. So, we can keep up, and if you read back through all the reply's, you'll see that I'm trying to get to the male standards before I get to OCS so that I'm looked upon as an "equal." So, before you go off spouting out bullsh*t like this, read the rest of the thread. And if you did a little informal survey of military women you know (like I have), you might come to see that alot of women agree that they do want equal standards. It would be alot more helpful to have your support while we're working our @sses off to get to the same times/standards as you instead of your criticism.

-Erin Leigh

I could give a sht really, but that would really shut a LOT of people up. There would be no more argument.

Ok, well I didn't mean to start a gender equality question with this thread. But I agree with erinleigh31 and everyone else. We should have the same standards, they should just be the women's standards, but then again I don't like running. Frankly if women want to be judged by men standards, they can borrow mine. I would actually like doing the PRT at that speed. Thanks for the info on battalion runs, and I think we can stop bashing women now. I would never bash women, their cute...

Hahaha...If there was a pay incentive tied to your pft, I think you'd see improvements. But that would create conflicts, no?

Sorry if you took it personal. I guess humor can't be read very well online. However, if you can't handle criticism how will you ever keep up? (And I dont mean physically.) I did read the whole thread. Word of advice to you...develop a thick skin. Just my .00002 cents

Good Luck'

Humor can't be read very well online, so sorry to reply like that if you were just trying to be funny. Criticism doesn't bother me. I've been in school as an engineer, and sailed as an engineer on several different ships, and engineers are extremely critical of each other and we pick on each other all the time. So I do have thick skin. To me, your comment sounded like you were saying that women can't keep up with anything (not just PT) and that they shouldn't be in the military (I have run into some people who have this belief). If thats not what you were saying, I apologize for my somewhat harsh reply.

-Erin Leigh

I saw Patty Wagstaff in Wichita, KS on a crappy day. It was about 1800 ovc and 7 miles vis. What was really great is that night on the news, they were interviewing the Air Force pilots that cancelled their show due to the weather just as Patty went screaming behind them upside down in the rain. They were dumbfounded when she went by.

i guess i came into this thread just a TAD late. as a woman in NROTC. i can attest to the rediculously low minimum scores to pass for both the Navy and Marine Corps side of the house. having recently switched, i can say my standards got harder, especially when you have to sustain your 1.5 mile pace for twice the distance, but with good training, you can do it. i only ever ran a 10:46 as my fastest 1.5 time, and considering i ran twice as far for my latest PFT, i ran it in 22:50 with splits of 11:20 and 11:30. that's only 12 points off perfect (21:00). my beef is actually with the Navy female standards. while the guys have ten-second intervals for every 1 point until their max, females have it until 11:15, but to get 100 points, they have to run a 9:29. where's the sense in having 95 points at 11:15 and 100 at 9:29? why almost two minutes faster? that's completely insane and i've never figured out why it is so...

i can also attest to the fact that it is physically harder for females, especially short ones like me (i'm 61.5 inches) to run as fast as males. additionally, it is extremely hard for me to do crunches due to the short distance from my shoulder to my elbow. try as hard as i might, i am not going to only have to hunch my shoulders to get a crunch. i basically have to do a full sit-up and it kills me every time. i have yet to get 100 crunches and i've got my aMOI and MOI harping on me that these should be gimmes. yet my PFT score is in the 270's. i am the only female in my class who can do 8 or 9 dead-hang, palm-out pullups.

for one more thing, it's very hard for me to maintain height/weight standards. i would like to say it's because i'm very muscular, but only being 61.5 inches, i only get 137 pounds. i'm at about 142 and have been for three semesters, so it's not like i'm putting it on. i've maintained from when i started doing FTX's, humps, and weight-lifting. but for some reason, i'm less of a person because i can't just get weighed and pass. it's highly frustrating as a very athletic woman who happens to be short.

I think the standards are different between men and women just as they're different for age groups. The PRT measures your physical ability based on your capacity. The navy cares how physically fit you are so you don't have a heart attack if you have to run a distance or are in a stressful situation... not that you can run 1.5 miles in such and such a time or do so many push ups/sit ups. correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't the airforce do their PRT based on heart rate?

My form partner in primary was a female and she kicked ass. My on-wing in advanced is female and I think she's a great pilot. Do I care if they can't run 1.5 miles as fast as me? nope.. because I know they're physically. Something else u guys should know is that once you leave API noone is going to make you PT. There will be PRTs every six months or so but all you need is a Good-Low as an officer (vice. excellent low at OCS) Those of you at whiting have it made too... 1.5 miles.. all straight-a-way... slight downhill slope. I had one of my best times ever

So why do we run the PFA?

If the reason is because we need a certain level of fitness to do our job, then certainly the standards should be the same for men and women of all age groups. Does that make sense? Not really I don't think. To expect a 50 year old woman to be able to do the same minimums as an 18 year old male just wouldn't work, no matter how you cut it.

So if not to do our jobs, then why do we do it (in the Navy this is)? In my opinion it is so that we don't look like fat a$$es in our uniforms and, as someone else said, because we are professionals and need to take pride in ourselves. I know that the PFA isn't all that good in this regard either, but I can't think of any other good reason to do the PFA at all, and that being the case the different standards do make sense.

I used to get all pi$$ed every time I went to PT and the girls couldn't do it as well as the rest of us guys, but I finally figured out that the system did make a weird sort of sense to me. Of course, I still rag on the females for taking 25 minutes to finish the run, but only after I stop wheezing and hacking from running mine in a good/low sort of time.

If girls want to run as fast as me, good for them. As far as the Marines, I don't know why you guys joined the Corps if you don't love to run/PT, but it's not necessarily true for the rest of the world.