Frustrated, airsick, and miserable.

[jabrodo]

I'll be honest up front, I dug myself into a bit of a hole in ground school. I didn't listen to the studying suggestions I was given and failed two exams. I talked things over with the chaplain to deal with the stress which helped. I changed my study habits. I started studying with others and chair flying frequently. I tried to get more exercise. I got through the sims and did pretty well, getting above MIF on a few occasions. I was feeling pretty decent. Not necessarily out of the hole, but certainly on my way to climbing out.

Then I hit the actual flights and it all went to pieces again. I got horribly airsick on my first two flights and put on the meds. They helped and I was able to get through a flight without spending the last half with my head in a bag. Regardless I still didn't do well. Third flight was marginal, and I dicked up an ELP stall and unsat the fourth. Studied, chair flew, and practiced, yet still unsat the re-fly a few days later.

I came to the briefs prepared and have had a couple positive comments about them in my grade sheets. I know the procedures for the maneuvers I'm supposed to fly. I can recite the course rules verbatim, and I know the landmarks I'm supposed to look for. My comms are ok and have been improving somewhat.

Once I get in the aircraft I can't get it to do what I want it to do. My basic air work is bad. I can't trim the aircraft completely. I can't properly execute the procedures I know in my head. I have trouble visually navigating from ground references and telling roads apart. My situational awareness and pattern work is terrible. Most of the flight I'm just trying to keep from doing anything terribly unsafe and fumbling at putting us in the right location.

At this point I don't know what else to do. I log the hours I need to for SMS. I've got study partners and I chair fly with them regularly. We through balls and walk around while reciting procedures and EPs. I spend time in the static sims. I do my best to get additional time in the sims during the occasional Saturdays that they're open. All of my classmates, friends, and study partners are progressing on pace and I'm not.

The only conclusion I arrive at is that I'm simply not good at this or cut out for it. I don't have any major extenuating outside circumstances, certainly not anything that no one else is going through. What I've got going on I've told my IP and CoC about.

The only thing that I've kept to myself is that I'm homesick. I've been in Florida for 8 months now and outside of the total of the three month-long cruises I've had as a midshipman, this is the longest I've ever spent away from home. I lived in two houses not very far apart growing up. I went to college only ten miles away. I was really excited to move here, but now that I'm here and not enjoying myself, I find myself wanting to move back.

I've been lurking around here for the past couple of months and have read up enough to make the decision that I won't DOR. I'll let somebody else decide that I'm not allowed to do this any more. The initial word I've heard is that I'll get scheduled for an FPC flight sometime next week. I honestly don't know if it will do any good or that it will matter. I've flown the same profile three times now over eight days. I don't know what else to do to pass. Should I pass, it just seems like I'll end right back in this same scenario when it comes down to flying again.

I've always had a fascination with flying and space travel. I've wanted to be an astronaut since I was eight years old. Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin are personal idols of mine. I studied mechanical engineering in college to get me pointed in this direction. I've been good at things since high school. I had a little trouble in college but made the necessary corrections and again did well. I just feel that I've done everything I'm supposed to and am having trouble dealing with the fact that might still not be enough.

That's it. I'm not really looking for any comment in particular. I just needed to vent that. Thanks for reading.

 

[Brett327]

The only thing that I've kept to myself is that I'm homesick.

You're an adult now. Home is wherever you're at. Get over it, find new friends, interests and make a new life for yourself away from where you grew up. Everybody goes through a range of emotions as they transition. For perspective, every time I visit the town where I grew up, I see the people that never left - stagnant and inexperienced in life. You don't want to be one of those folks.

Everybody sucks in the beginning and lots of people get sick at first. You'll get better with practice and dedication, while your brain will eventually acclimatize. Dig deep and follow your dreams!

 

[nittany03]

It's Friday night. I'm holding this space to allow me to process the bourbon in my system before I respond. Mentally, I've been close to where you're describing, but my thought process right now is chasing too many squirrels, as I've just finished my last glass of the evening and am about to hit the hay. Yes, it's a complete mindfuck. Let me sleep on this and come back. I can't tell my 25-year-old self what I can tell you, but I'm sensing a bit of a parallel here. Keep the faith, brother.

Edit: I've been there. It freaking sucks to be at that point where you feel like God or fate is kicking you in the balls for no reason. The only reason I got to keep going is that exact same attitude you had: I'll let someone else boot me but I won't quit. You have to actively reject the "I'm not going to make it" mentality and hold it in contempt. You may make it or you may not, but you'll never make it if you haven't decided in your heart of hearts that you're going to go down swinging. Confidence doesn't mean you're going to pass, but lack of it guarantees you will attrite.

I won't lie to you. That doesn't mean the light WILL click. But I'll offer you this advice, which is worth everything you paid for it. Studying is only half the battle. To me, it sounds like you fear the plane. That's human, but you need to work through it. The rote procedures are only a window to a more complex reality. Follow them strictly, but feel the airplane. Ever play baseball or golf? People would tell you while learning "your bat/club/body has to do this, then this, then this." And you practice, practice, practice. But what happens when you actually hit that great shot? You don't think. You just SWING, and trust that all those hours at the range or at batting practice work. That is where flying needs to get to. Muscle memory that frees your brain cells up for more important things like where you are and what you need to be doing with the airplane.

Trim is an issue that some studs have trouble with since they only make big corrections to it. They hack slowly with an axe when they need to be continuously whittling small slices with a pocketknife. If you're flying a T-6 or any aircraft with a hat on the stick, try to wear out the right thumb of your flight gloves. There's times to run the trim one way or the other, but more often than not it's hundreds of little clicks per minute when you feel the slightest ounce of pressure on your fingers. If you're flying aero, grab the stick with your whole hand and assertively move the aircraft. If you're just flying around, you should fly the aircraft using your fingertips. Can't? Trim until you can. Trim is a constantly changing beast; it's rarely perfect but you're always trying to get it perfect. Get it close enough and you can then use just a smidgen of pressure on the stick to make hair-thin corrections to turn good into perfect. Move the throttle a sixteenth of an inch? Trim a little. Fix a small glitch in your airwork? Trim a little again.

Best of luck going forward. Everyone hits a wall or several in this business.

 

[zippy]

Airsickness sucks- and makes flight school more miserable than it can be. Early airsickness is fairly common- especially in the T-6. I can think of 4 on wings of mine who had debilitating airsickness pre-solo and all fly jets now.

Quite frankly you suck at flying because you're not having fun with it. You're not having fun with it because you lack confidence and second guess everything. Go enjoy the flights you have left since, according to you- you've got nothing to lose.

Flying isn't for everyone. It doesn't make you any worse of a person if you can't sucessuly do it. If you really hate it that much then take some control over your life and DOR. We all can pick out the students who hate it and are depressed but are to afraid to quit.

If you decide to fight, fight to win and fly your heart out. If you decide to take your ball and go home, do so with some dignity.

 

[Uncle Fester]

There are a lot of winged aviators who were in your shoes, young buck. Hitting a wall in the Program is not uncommon.

You've made much of your airsickness but didn't say if they sent you through the spin & puke or if they put you on meds. You need to solve that problem first. You're never going to get better in the airplane if you're feeling like shit in the air, and dreading feeling like shit will not help your mental pregame/studying either. So first, take care of that. Talk to the Quack and your flight lead and on wing.

If you solve the airsickness problem, and your self-assessment is honest and correct that you know your shit but your airwork sucks, then perhaps switching over to NFO might be a possibility. You wouldn't be the first guy in that category, either.

 

[zippy]

There are a lot of winged aviators who were in your shoes, young buck. Hitting a wall in the Program is not uncommon.

You've made much of your airsickness but didn't say if they sent you through the spin & puke or if they put you on meds. You need to solve that problem first. You're never going to get better in the airplane if you're feeling like shit in the air, and dreading feeling like shit will not help your mental pregame/studying either. So first, take care of that. Talk to the Quack and your flight lead and on wing.

If you solve the airsickness problem, and your self-assessment is honest and correct that you know your shit but your airwork sucks, then perhaps switching over to NFO might be a possibility. You wouldn't be the first guy in that category, either.

To piggy back on this- my very first owning in T-34s puked a couple times in flight but got over it so I didn't think much of it.

Fast forward 12 months he calls me on the phone to talk to me about how much he hated jet advanced and wanted to DOR... The reason was he hated every day of it. Why? He was getting actively airsick on every flight event after BIs. Turns out he would get passive airsick on about 60% of the flights in the T-34, but didn't want to say anything because he was afraid of getting attrited if the whole airsick process didn't work.

He got stuck in a circle of misery because of his fears. I convinced him to fess up Let the squadron know about his airsickness problems. He did and they ran him through the spin and puke process with all the primary students, but it sucked for him. He eventually overcame it and now flys super hornets in the fleet and loves it now that he doesn't get air sick.

Do everything to solve your airsickness problem. Your outlook on things will improve tremendously if you can. If you cannot, then they'll find you aeromedically unadaptable and your problem will be solved for you.

 

[jabrodo]

You've made much of your airsickness but didn't say if they sent you through the spin & puke or if they put you on meds.

Sorry if you missed it. I've been on meds since my third flight. C4103, C4014, & C4104(2) have all been on medication with neither passive or active airsickness. I had a similar, albeit of much smaller magnitude, issue in IFS. The airsickness issue eventually went away, and I imagine it will continue to get better. The Doc's main reason for putting me on meds was to allow me to develop some skill flying so I didn't dig myself into an even deeper hole by getting poor grade sheets on my early flights. Well, the airsickness is gone, but I'm not flying any better and still getting bad grade sheets. Its frustrating.

If you really hate it that much then take some control over your life and DOR. We all can pick out the students who hate it and are depressed but are to afraid to quit.

Forgive me for being blunt, but I've heard from a student's perspective that you should do the exact opposite: try for as long as you can and let someone winged tell you you can no longer do this. What I've heard around here and through the grape vine is that DOR's tend to regret it later in life, that they tend to be made due to temporary issues, and that in the current environment attrites tend to fare better in re-designation boards than DORs. If it comes to that, I would like to stay in the Navy.

 

[picklesuit]

First,
Don't DOR, it closes doors down the road.
Second, why are you failing? Pretty sure MIF for BAW is a 2 in the C4100 block. There is more to the story than a poor scan and inability to fly.

As someone who has been at this and see a few students like you come through, an FPC on the C4104 is not good.

When did you do your IPC?

Two failures in GS will speak volumes to the CO, and he will be evaluating your ability to train, not your ability to fly a C4104. Show up ready to crush the brief and have a positive attitude. Nothing else can be controlled at this point.

Pickle

 

[zippy]

Sorry if you missed it. I've been on meds since my third flight. C4103, C4014, & C4104(2) have all been on medication with neither passive or active airsickness. I had a similar, albeit of much smaller magnitude, issue in IFS. The airsickness issue eventually went away, and I imagine it will continue to get better. The Doc's main reason for putting me on meds was to allow me to develop some skill flying so I didn't dig myself into an even deeper hole by getting poor grade sheets on my early flights. Well, the airsickness is gone, but I'm not flying any better and still getting bad grade sheets. Its frustrating.



Forgive me for being blunt, but I've heard from a student's perspective that you should do the exact opposite: try for as long as you can and let someone winged tell you you can no longer do this. What I've heard around here and through the grape vine is that DOR's tend to regret it later in life, that they tend to be made due to temporary issues, and that in the current environment attrites tend to fare better in re-designation boards than DORs. If it comes to that, I would like to stay in the Navy.

Some DORs regret it some don't. Flying isn't for everyone. Only you can truly decide if your happy and want to be there. If you don't and are miserable, don't torture yourself. There's no shame in not wanting to be there. It's not for everyone and the further you get away from it the more you realize that it Doesn't matter to anyone else but you.

Guys who don't want to be there but are suffering it out to make the command attrite them instead of walking away on their own accord tend to lack decisiveness, which is also part of why they suck in the plane... They're so concerned about making a mistake that it paralyzes them to the point that they're dangerous.

I know several DORs who have had successful careers as SWOs and Intel folks and even a supply guy.

Hopefully the retention rate is greater than the 17% it was a few years ago when students attrited.

There's a difference between not wanting to quit and wanting to be there.

Go to your happy place today and decide what you want to do. If you really want to be in flight school then start acting like it... Be motivated to fly, happy when you're there and have a positive attitude. Do this and you'll find your flying might get better.

If you decide you don't want to be there, save yourself some misery and free up your squadrons time and effort so they can invest it in others who do.

You're no less of a person regardless of what you decide, but you need to go all in one way or another. Half measures are making you miserable and are what put you in this position in the first place.

 

[jabrodo]

Pretty sure MIF for BAW is a 2 in the C4100 block. There is more to the story than a poor scan and inability to fly.
...
When did you do your IPC?

MIF is 3 for C4100s. Just double checked to be sure. And it really is a poor scan, particularly in the pattern. I'll lose track of altitude while maintaining heading, spacing, airspeed, ground track, cross wind correction, and running through the landing checklist. Swap as you like, its always something.

IPC was actually an FPC for the ground school failures. About two months ago.

 

[whitesoxnation]

Bro I can't easily think of anyone I went through flight school or the RAG with that didn't SOD, unsat, DQ at the boat, or have some other sort of trouble at some time.

Primary is not like intermediate which is not like advanced which is not like the FRS etc etc, so don't decide that you don't want to continue based on a very small part of the journey. People hit their strides at different points and if everyone quit at the first sign of difficulty then there wouldn't be anyone to fly the planes. Have high but realistic expectations for yourself. You've flown the airplane like six or seven times, you're going to be bad and fuck a lot of things up. Guess what, your friends that are progressing normally are bad too. Don't expect to have a perfect event but prepare like that's your goal. Just remember that somewhere out there someone that is dumber than you figured out a way to make it through, so why not you.

 

[AllYourBass]

Bro I can't easily think of anyone I went through flight school or the RAG with that didn't SOD, unsat, DQ at the boat, or have some other sort of trouble at some time.

Primary is not like intermediate which is not like advanced which is not like the FRS etc etc, so don't decide that you don't want to continue based on a very small part of the journey. People hit their strides at different points and if everyone quit at the first sign of difficulty then there wouldn't be anyone to fly the planes. Have high but realistic expectations for yourself. You've flown the airplane like six or seven times, you're going to be bad and fuck a lot of things up. Guess what, your friends that are progressing normally are bad too. Don't expect to have a perfect event but prepare like that's your goal. Just remember that somewhere out there someone that is dumber than you figured out a way to make it through, so why not you.

I like this response. I know somebody who failed multiple events and multiple checkrides in Primary. That person did quite a few progress checks (I think they had two FPCs, too). They did absolutely fine in Advanced and now they're winged. So much of this whole journey has been about learning to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and face the next event brilliantly. Avoid self-fulfilling prophecies of failure.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Concur with the above.

Take a deep breath and relax. To me, it sounds like you're not flying well because you are overthinking and second guessing yourself. My worst flights in primary and advanced were the ones that I was nervous/uptight. That is no way to fly.

I failed my contact check in advanced. I had an IPC. You are not the first or last to go through something like this.

 

[wink]

Jabrodo, the guys posting here, what they are sharing, is why you need to make sure you have given it your very best shot. Everything you've got! These are the sort of guys you want to spend the next 6 or 8 years with. There are lots more of them in the fleet.

 

[jtmedli]

Just a few points:
-Everyone fails something or fucks something up along the way. EVERYONE. The system is setup to challenge you and force you to learn, get qualified, and get smart as fast as possible. If it's easy, you're probably not doing it right.
-Airsickness gets A LOT of people. Like 2/3 of my primary class puked or got sick at one point or another. And 3 of us (myself included) went to the spin and puke.
-Homesickness happens. That's why there's this thing called "leave". You'll get to go home. You will get bored as hell there and realize that it's the same shit that it was when you left, and then you'll come back to Pcola or wherever and be glad that you're where you're at.

Stick with it. You're in for the time of your life over the next 8-10 years. You'll see stuff and do stuff that your buddies couldn't even dream about. It WILL be worth it.