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Fraudulent enlistment?

angelflwr

FS SNA...for now
#1
Long time stalker, first time poster. Looking for help as I am not trying place blame...just get an idea of how screwed I am.

1. I had PRK done AFTER submitting my OCS application. So far, the Navy does not know about it because my research was that I just need to wait my 6 months and apply for the waiver. I didn't think I would get a FS so soon, but here it is and I don't know what to do. I called a flight nurse in Newport and a LCDR doc in Florida who both told me all I need to do is get a flight exam done after 6 months and bring all documentation. OCS date is February so I would have the waiver before reporting. Question is: When I first apply for this waiver in December, will the Navy be upset I never mentioned it? So much so they will NPQ me or even worse, discharge me under Fraudulent Enlistment? I got the surgery in order TO fly, it would be crappy that it would be the reason I couldn't.

2. I received a Underage Drinking ticket when I was 20. My recruiter told me not to put it down on my application, though I told him what I read here and he insisted it didn't matter. His words were "better to say you forgot and ask for forgiveness, then ask for permission." I assume since I have a FS letter, I passed the initial screening, though when they go to do the real background check, no doubt they will find this since every job I have applied for has found this. Is there anything I can/should do about this now? The only times I have talked to him about this have been over the phone or in person, so I don't have much evidence other than when the doc at MEPS asked me about any alcohol violations, I was honest and open about it. Luckily, he wrote it down on the back of my MEPS paperwork. Is this enough to cover me if/when it becomes an issue?

I have searched this forum for days and people have kicked out for fraudulent enlistment for much less. Here is to hoping I won't be one of them. Thanks in advance for the help/guidance/words of wisdom.

-Jen
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#2
. I received a Underage Drinking ticket when I was 20. My recruiter told me not to put it down on my application, though I told him what I read here and he insisted it didn't matter. His words were "better to say you forgot and ask for forgiveness, then ask for permission."
My advice: Get another Recruiter! This one is a douche. Follow that advice & your chances of success are zero. If your Recruiter gets caught giving advice like this, he'll be getting a "new job", and it won't be a pleasant one!

A. PERSONAL INTEGRITY! Get caught in a lie..you're history for any Commission in any Service, there is no forgiveness for lying or omitting from an application.

B. They'll find it in the background check, which will be much more thorough than most any employers.

C. Will this infraction automatically disqualify you from acceptance...NO! Will it affect your chances at making it to flight training, it well may, as competition for dwindling slots is very keen. You can only try and see what happens.
BzB
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#3
Regardless of what you have been told in the past, you will come off a whole lot better if you fess up now than look like you were trying to hide something. There's a difference between active deception and an honest mistake.

There are plenty of aviators out there with PRK waivers, myself being one of them. I also got commissioned with someone who had gotten an underage drinking citation; I think this person had to do a DAPA consult or somesuch, but still eventually got commissioned and winged.

I can't speak for what exactly they check in a security clearance investigation, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that underage drinking citation pop, if not on a SECRET than certainly on a TS/SCI. And when I went through my initial NAMI physical, the corpsman who did that part of my eye exam showed me where PRK stood out like a sore thumb on the contour of my cornea. Ain't no hidin' that.

And you can't be processed for fraudulent or erroneous enlistment because you are applying to be commissioned, and therefore you are not enlisting. Different section of the MILPERSMAN. So there's your daily administrivia. :)
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#4
As far as framing your mea culpa in the best light - I think you've been given a sufficient amount of poor advice from the recruiter that you could use the "i'm calling you [someone else in the chain] because i'm pretty sure i made some bad choices based on bad advice and i would like to clear up any questions/possible problems in order to preserve my intergrity."
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Super Moderator
Contributor
#5
My advice: Get another Recruiter! This one is a douche. Follow that advice & your chances of success are zero. If your Recruiter gets caught giving advice like this, he'll be getting a "new job", and it won't be a pleasant one!

A. PERSONAL INTEGRITY! Get caught in a lie..you're history for any Commission in any Service, there is no forgiveness for lying or omitting from an application.

B. They'll find it in the background check, which will be much more thorough than most any employers.

C. Will this infraction automatically disqualify you from acceptance...NO! Will it affect your chances at making it to flight training, it well may, as competition for dwindling slots is very keen. You can only try and see what happens.
BzB
Yea, what he said.
Long time stalker, first time poster. Looking for help as I am not trying place blame...just get an idea of how screwed I am.

1. I had PRK done AFTER submitting my OCS application. So far, the Navy does not know about it because my research was that I just need to wait my 6 months and apply for the waiver. .......Tell them. It shouldn't be a big deal. Besides...once they do an eye exam, they will be able to see the results.
2. I received a Underage Drinking ticket when I was 20. Tell them this too. When asked, and they will, be upfront about all that you do/have done. Your integrity is something only you can keep.
I have searched this forum for days and people have kicked out for fraudulent enlistment for much less. Here is to hoping I won't be one of them. Thanks in advance for the help/guidance/words of wisdom.

-Jen
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#6
For the purposes of OCS if you're a shiny new OC off the street, they enlist you for the purpose of training. You sign a service agreement that covers what happens should you not complete training (discharge) and if you complete it what kind of commission you receive as well as signing the enlistment agreement. They make you sign a form that covers fradulent enlistment (NAVPERS 1130/2) hence the poster's question that has specific questions you have to reply yes or no to. Once you complete training you get a DD 214 for the "enlisted time" stating the reason for separation which is accepting a commission in the same branch of service.
Hmm. Didn't know that. I stand corrected.
 

angelflwr

FS SNA...for now
#7
All, thanks for help. Should have mentioned this tidbit: I contacted another recruiter at the NRD a while back and mentioned that I needed to make amends and he cut me off saying not to tell him what it was and that if my OR said to leave it off I should leave it off. So as far as reporting the surgery and the ticket, what are my choices without getting these gentleman in trouble.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
#8
angelflwr, your omission will be discovered during the security clearance process... When you fill out your SF-86 (Page 89, Police Record) there are specific quesions about tickets, et al.

http://www.opm.gov/Forms/pdf_fill/SF86.pdf

Have any of the following happened?
-- In the past seven (7) years have you been issued a summons, citation, or ticket to appear in court in a criminal proceedin against you? (Do not check if all the citiations involved traffic infractions where the fine was less than $300 and did not include alcohol or drugs)
Then, in the details for each instance, there is a section for "Check all that apply." One of the check boxes says "Involve alcohol or drugs?"

As long as it was not a DUI/DWI, I think you will be fine. The key is to be honest about it because the investigators will find it during their records checks.
 

angelflwr

FS SNA...for now
#9
angelflwr, your omission will be discovered during the security clearance process... When you fill out your SF-86 (Page 89, Police Record) there are specific quesions about tickets, et al.

http://www.opm.gov/Forms/pdf_fill/SF86.pdf



Then, in the details for each instance, there is a section for "Check all that apply." One of the check boxes says "Involve alcohol or drugs?"

As long as it was not a DUI/DWI, I think you will be fine. The key is to be honest about it because the investigators will find it during their records checks.
Bubblehead, thanks. I now know it will be found. Which is the main reason I posted this thread...unfortunately I did not know this when applying and when completing the sf-86 last year. After digging around the forum my fate seems to be, unless I can fix this I will be found out and kicked out down the road.. Im not sure how it didnt come up during the initial screening for FS, but my days are numbered until they run the clearance...is there anything I can do or am I dead in my tracks?
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
#10
Bubblehead, thanks. I now know it will be found. Which is the main reason I posted this thread...unfortunately I did not know this when applying and when completing the sf-86 last year. After digging around the forum my fate seems to be, unless I can fix this I will be found out and kicked out down the road.. Im not sure how it didnt come up during the initial screening for FS, but my days are numbered until they run the clearance...is there anything I can do or am I dead in my tracks?
Since it was a "ticket" and not a DUI/DWI, I fairly certain that you will be fine... People forget to put shit on their SF-86 all of the time. It happens. Just be honest: you were told that it did not need to be reported.

Just bring it up during your OPM interview. The investigator reviews everything with you, line-by-line.
 
#12
When you have your security interview, can't you just tell the interviewer and be done with the drinking ticket issue?
The only thing is on your application to the pilot board it does asked if you've been charged with a crime to include drug or alcohol use. I think the main thing is just being honest with the guy conducting your security interview. I always said I'd rather go down for telling the truth and have some what of a chance than be caught for lying and gurantee me the end.

My recruiter wanted me to lie about my inhalor use.. I told him I wasn't going to and I dropped him and found a new OR.