FBI Selects Glock in 9MM as Next Gen Service Weapon

[exNavyOffRec]

Exactly, Gatordev.

NavtOffRec, my point was it's more about preference- a Glock isn't any more/less likely to go off unintended than another pistol, and the vast majority of NDs (including the one you mentioned) result from people forgetting one or more of the 4 basic firearm rules. The action that makes me the most nervous? The 1911. If I'm not proficient, I'm constantly checking it before I draw to make sure I didn't forget to engage the thumb safety when it was holstered. That's why training (including dry-fire) with a pistol is important. But I don't think it's a problem with the 1911 action itself, just my personal idiosyncrasy, since I learned to shoot with an XD that doesn't have a thumb safety.

talking about preference I get that, and if for some reason I needed someone to use their firearm to protect me I would want a person that was proficient with a firearm they preferred to shoot.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Putting any handgun into a bag without putting it in a holster/protective cover could have resulted in the same situation. Mechanical safeties can get flipped just like the trigger can get depressed when being jostled around.

Navair issues weapons that have no mechanical safety to people with almost no firearms training. Just food for thought. Sure it's a DA gun, but it still doesn't have a safety.

I was always taught that loaded guns always have a place to live, and that place is a holster outside of the safe, point proven by the guy in Lowes near me who was carrying his gun in his front waste band he went to adjust it and boom, bullet went into his leg, after taking out one of his testicles.

Possible yes, but less likely, and with a grip safety essentially remote.

That is kind of scary, does it really take that long to give someone basic firearm training on the weapon they are going to use? probably not.

 

[ChuckMK23]

+1 on the comments about Glock, M&P, and other striker fired pistols without additional external "deactivation" mechanisms being 100% free of any accidental discharges. 10+ years as serious competitive shooter (USPSA) - starting with the 1911 and 2011, the majority of my sport has switched to Glock, M&P, and others like it. My point is I am intimately familiar with all three levels of safety - from the connector that requires a deliberate trigger pull to retract the striker under spring pressure, to the firing pin block that again requires travel of the trigger, to the trigger safety itself that requires a human finger to release - these are all bomb proof safety features. When combined with proper carry system (holster, trigger guard cover) are 100% AD free. The gun goes "bang" you pull the trigger. In a duty, sentry, or service carry system, these are excellent and safe tools for the intended purpose.

We should BE so lucky if .MIL adopts either the Glock or M&P as the joint service combat pistol.

Where there are systemic AD's its always from defects in training - where crappy training doctrine permits non operational trigger engagement without FIRST checking the chamber clear. Any reliance on using a safety "lever" as a "safe" weapon is defective training and thinking/doctrine. LA County Sheriff dept recently went from Beretta M9 to M&P - and the transition included a number of officer who behaved in a non compliant fashion and got themselves a an AD. Defects. In. Training. (not the gun).

Modern striker fired pistols are amazing feats of engineering that bring incredible levels of effectiveness and safety. H&K, S&W, Glock, etc.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I was always taught that loaded guns always have a place to live, and that place is a holster outside of the safe, point proven by the guy in Lowes near me who was carrying his gun in his front waste band he went to adjust it and boom, bullet went into his leg, after taking out one of his testicles.

Possible yes, but less likely, and with a grip safety essentially remote.

That is kind of scary, does it really take that long to give someone basic firearm training on the weapon they are going to use? probably not.

Ah. The old self-correcting appendix carry. A lot of firearms instructors won't allow people to appendix carry in their classes (even with an approved holster) for exactly that reason. I personally won't place a pistol forward of the 3 o'clock belt position.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Ah. The old self-correcting appendix carry. A lot of firearms instructors won't allow people to appendix carry in their classes (even with an approved holster) for exactly that reason. I personally won't place a pistol forward of the 3 o'clock belt position.

Funny, I do the same thing never have carried forward of the 3 o'clock position myself

 

[Gatordev]

I was always taught that loaded guns always have a place to live, and that place is a holster outside of the safe, point proven by the guy in Lowes near me who was carrying his gun in his front waste band he went to adjust it and boom, bullet went into his leg, after taking out one of his testicles.

Possible yes, but less likely, and with a grip safety essentially remote.

That is kind of scary, does it really take that long to give someone basic firearm training on the weapon they are going to use? probably not.

My wife has a XD9, so I've played with it a bit. While there are other more important reasons why I don't like the gun (fit being number 1), the grip safety isn't the panacea. Two examples on things to be aware of that the grip safety won't save you from:

1) When putting a XD9 back in your holster, it suffers the same problem every other striker-fired hand gun has...if something binds in the trigger (like a shirt), it's going to go off because you have the grip safety depressed. So even the XD9 doesn't solve all of the safety issues. I always cringe when I see people jam their striker-fired gun into their holster after loading it at a competition stage. When people do that, I never see them check to see if their is something to hang it up (and certainly not something I'm specifically picking on the XD9 about). Personally, I always smoothly slide my gun into the holster until I feel the retention lock, regardless of the type of handgun (which is usually either a Glock or a Sig).

2) If you have to draw and shoot up close (if it's a carry gun), it's possible that you may not have a full grip on the safety, which won't allow it to fire. I've played with it a bit (empty) and have been able to recreate this, at least with my hands. Is this a low-percentage "failure" to worry about? I'm happy to say I have no idea, but just something to be aware of.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Gator, I'd say your first concern is valid (always re-holster carefully), but your second shouldn't be too much of a concern if you have a proper grip on the pistol, or it could be corrected with regular training. I've never had an issue with my XD45 not wanting to fire when I asked it to. The biggest issue with the gun or you is probably the fit. Some examples of the XD I find fit me fine, while others don't fit well at all (like the XDS in 9mm).

One problem I have with the XD line though is that if the backstrap (grip) safety isn't depressed, the slide is locked closed. It's not a big deal most of the time, but it is a potential source of a jammed slide if the mechanism ever malfunctions, or if you ever wanted to reload with an unconventional grip (due to injury maybe? Could be a corner case...)

 

[Hair Warrior]

There was a kid shot near me that had a glock in his backpack (his dads), he dropped it and it fired, the responding LE said something (don't remember what) had wedged inside the trigger guard and when the backpack was dropped on the ground it depressed the trigger and it fired.

His dad shouldn't have had a round in the chamber. Mere jostling can't rack the weapon.

If the Glock has a glaring drawback, IMO, it's not the internal trigger-safety; it's that you have to dry-fire the weapon in order to disassemble it (which increases the chances of ND from mistakenly leaving a round in the chamber).

The risk of ND can be avoided by proper safety training to always clear the chamber before disassembling, but it's also just a wear n' tear factor.

 

[sevenhelmet]

^^^Same with the XD- that's always made me mildly uncomfortable when cleaning, despite triple-checking the chamber every time. I don't get it- the Sig 220 series pistols have very similar tool-free takedown that doesn't require a trigger pull.

The difference between a $500 pistol and a $1000 one I guess...

 

[BigRed389]

^^^Same with the XD- that's always made me mildly uncomfortable when cleaning, despite triple-checking the chamber every time. I don't get it- the Sig 220 series pistols have very similar tool-free takedown that doesn't require a trigger pull.

The difference between a $500 pistol and a $1000 one I guess...

I think that's more of a hammer vs striker fired thing...

 

[sevenhelmet]

Good point.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

His dad shouldn't have had a round in the chamber. Mere jostling can't rack the weapon.

If the Glock has a glaring drawback, IMO, it's not the internal trigger-safety; it's that you have to dry-fire the weapon in order to disassemble it (which increases the chances of ND from mistakenly leaving a round in the chamber).

The risk of ND can be avoided by proper safety training to always clear the chamber before disassembling, but it's also just a wear n' tear factor.

The kid said he loaded it, the kid shouldn't have taken it to school, the dad shouldn't have had the weapon as he was a felon.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

My wife has a XD9, so I've played with it a bit. While there are other more important reasons why I don't like the gun (fit being number 1), the grip safety isn't the panacea. Two examples on things to be aware of that the grip safety won't save you from:

1) When putting a XD9 back in your holster, it suffers the same problem every other striker-fired hand gun has...if something binds in the trigger (like a shirt), it's going to go off because you have the grip safety depressed. So even the XD9 doesn't solve all of the safety issues. I always cringe when I see people jam their striker-fired gun into their holster after loading it at a competition stage. When people do that, I never see them check to see if their is something to hang it up (and certainly not something I'm specifically picking on the XD9 about). Personally, I always smoothly slide my gun into the holster until I feel the retention lock, regardless of the type of handgun (which is usually either a Glock or a Sig).

2) If you have to draw and shoot up close (if it's a carry gun), it's possible that you may not have a full grip on the safety, which won't allow it to fire. I've played with it a bit (empty) and have been able to recreate this, at least with my hands. Is this a low-percentage "failure" to worry about? I'm happy to say I have no idea, but just something to be aware of.

as many times I have holstered my XD I can't see a shirt binding the trigger, I can see someone trying to holster it and having their finger inside the trigger guard like any other weapon. There was an article from about a year ago and I don't know what brand of holster but it had the trigger mechanism exposed, but an officer was at a school talking to a bunch of kids when one of them took his finger and pushed the trigger up, his glock discharged striking the officer in the leg.

I could maybe see a person drawing quickly and not getting a firm grip, but if they don't have a firm grip odds are they won't have a good aim either, going through a class should prevent this improper draw and shoot.

 

[Hair Warrior]

The kid said he loaded it, the kid shouldn't have taken it to school, the dad shouldn't have had the weapon as he was a felon.

Ah. Agreed sir. That does change the story. But I still don't fault Glock's manufacturing design for this one.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Ah. Agreed sir. That does change the story. But I still don't fault Glock's manufacturing design for this one.

I wouldn't fault manufacturing design, they wanted to design a simple gun that they could give to anyone that is essentially point and shoot and that is what they have, I find fault in not using a holster to protect the trigger area.