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Fatbodies beware!

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
#1
Apparently the new CMC doesn't like overweight Marines. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but think we need to throw some resources at this if we're going to be serious about it. For example, water immersion or electrical impedence should be the next step after exceeding ht/wt, not the rope-and-choke.

Actually, if it were up to be, medical-quality body fat testing would be the FIRST step, but that is probably too time-intensive. Nothing pisses me off more than the (often pack-a-day) skinny fat guys who get let off easy, while Marines who actually go to the gym on a regular basis have to sweat weigh-ins because they've got a lot of muscle.
 

desertoasis

Something witty.
None
Contributor
#2
Apparently the new CMC doesn't like overweight Marines. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but think we need to throw some resources at this if we're going to be serious about it. For example, water immersion or electrical impedence should be the next step after exceeding ht/wt, not the rope-and-choke.

Actually, if it were up to be, medical-quality body fat testing would be the FIRST step, but that is probably too time-intensive. Nothing pisses me off more than the (often pack-a-day) skinny fat guys who get let off easy, while Marines who actually go to the gym on a regular basis have to sweat weigh-ins because they've got a lot of muscle.
Unfortunate that they don't (or can't?) do the medical-caliber BMI as part of an entry examination (Do I hear long-form flight physical, anyone???) but you're right, it would probably be too time-intensive or not cost-effective. I wonder, though, how many of the skinny-fat guys (myself probably included) would get the chop because of a failed BMI. Already well known, but the Navy is now mandating BCA must be passed along with the PRT (i.e. you can't pass the PRT unless you are also in height-weight standards, which I personally think is BS. If you pass it, you pass it, we aren't Marines storming a beachhead.) so I guess the newfound fear of 'medium-husky' folks isn't limited to the Marine Corps.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
#3
BCA != height/weight standards. you can be out of height and weight standards and still pass the BCA.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#5
Is BCA the Navy's version of this?
If you are in height/weight, you are in BCA. If you are out of height/weight, you get rope-and-choked to determine your body fat percentage. If you are overweight and pass rope-and-choke, you are in BCA. It stands for Body Composition Analysis or somesuch. I'm not a CFL.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#6
Ya, if you're not in the ht/wt you have to meet the tape. Personally, I think they need to make some sort of policy that says if you can score an excellent high or something (just picking an arbitrary score here), then you can be exempt from the BCA standards. No, the Navy PRT isn't hard, but if you aren't in some kind of decent shape it's not easy to do well on it. Furthermore, if the Navy wants to encourage people to excel at physical fitness and not just meet the mins, why not put your actual PRT score on your fitrep?

Disclaimer: I don't think the PRT is even a good measurement of physical fitness, but given what we have, I think things like including the score on the fitrep and exemptions for BCA for good scores are a start.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
#7
I've said it before, but if we ate ending careers for BCA, it should be more scientific. When I do immersion or capacitance, I always get 2-4% lower than rope n choke.

Sent via my HTC EVO 4G
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
#8
Personally, I think they need to make some sort of policy that says if you can score an excellent high or something (just picking an arbitrary score here), then you can be exempt from the BCA standards.
Used to be USMC policy.

Every year, hundreds/thousands of capable, honorable overweight/obese service members are discharged for being overweight. Congress should make the services repeal their archaic policies that prohibit what you warmongers call "fatbodies." Being overweight/obese isn't a choice. It's a disease....er, "condition," and should not preclude one from military service.
 

Swanee

Self aware since 2014
pilot
Contributor
#9
Used to be USMC policy.

Every year, hundreds/thousands of capable, honorable overweight/obese service members are discharged for being overweight. Congress should make the services repeal their archaic policies that prohibit what you warmongers call "fatbodies." Being overweight/obese isn't a choice. It's a disease....er, "condition," and should not preclude one from military service.

The EO Nazis claim another victim...
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
#10
The Marine Corps used to have the policy that you'd get a pass on BF% if you got a first class PFT, but that's gone away. We do put PFT/CFT on fitreps, which is good. I do think that they are two separate things. I don't have a problem with it. However, I think ht/wt should be irrelevant. BF% should be the only body composition standard, period. 15% male, 20% female, whatever.

After exceeding ht/wt as a captain, but taping at 7%, a CO told me,"Officers don't go to the tape--we don't pay you to be a bodybuilder." Point taken. I haven't gone to the tape since, but I make sure to weigh in right after working out or doing a PFT--without taking water in between. The saying that "There are two types of Marines: big and mean and skinny and mean" may be true, but only the skinny and mean ones usually get promoted.
 

squeeze

Harrier Dude
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#11
Good. It's too hard to get rid of fat asses. Agreed that the HT/WT system as it stands is completely AFU and needs some serious revamping, but the basic point stands that there are a bunch of tubby Marines that need to fix themselves or be gone.

My .02 of why he's on the kick: He just got back from Afghanistan, where a lot of people wear FROG suits. We've got a saying around here, "FROG suits don't lie." You can hide fat in cammies, but a FROG suit will show your true colors. We joke that everyone should have to wear 'em. Fat bodies would be easier to pick out.
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
#12
Can you wear FROG suits in the chow hall these days? That used to set off the 8.9 level Devil-dog-o-meter on every SgtMaj in Afghanistan when I was there.

Just finished a 20 hour convoy? Dont care. Put on some clean cammies before you eat.
 

squeeze

Harrier Dude
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#13
Can you wear FROG suits in the chow hall these days? That used to set off the 8.9 level Devil-dog-o-meter on every SgtMaj in Afghanistan when I was there.

Just finished a 20 hour convoy? Dont care. Put on some clean cammies before you eat.
The Leatherneck faggotry waivers with whomever is in charge that week. MEF lightened up from MEB a bit, as we were able to wear them when we came into country this go round. But now that it's 2MEF, who knows. Leatherneck is the most soul-sucking place in OEF. It's so pogueish that I don't even know if you can count it as Afghanistan anymore. It's ridiculous how much of a self-licking ice cream cone that place has become. I'll have some stories for you when I get back Yuma way soon*

*Assuming PCS orders ever get funded and I can actually get my orders.
 

C420sailor

Rhino Bro
pilot
#14
The Marine Corps used to have the policy that you'd get a pass on BF% if you got a first class PFT, but that's gone away. We do put PFT/CFT on fitreps, which is good. I do think that they are two separate things. I don't have a problem with it. However, I think ht/wt should be irrelevant. BF% should be the only body composition standard, period. 15% male, 20% female, whatever.
I agree, but that's very hard to do with females. Females with larger chests would have a harder time staying within standards.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
#15
Then they're also at a disadvantage carrying an extra 10lb of funbag in the standard weigh-in. The difference in BF% standards between men and women is supposed to reflect both the difference in subcutaneous fat and in women's breasts. Extreme examples, a la Dolly Parton, are going to have issues with either system.