Do(ing) it again; Water Survival Training (API is just the beginning)

Discussion in 'Aviation Preflight Indoctrination (API)' started by HeyJoe, Feb 13, 2010.

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    phrogdriver liberty risk

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    Our LPPs for passengers come with a HABD bottle now. Most passengers get just an aircrewman brief, but the helo/tiltrotor company in a MEU gets a lot more egress traning since they'll be frequent passengers.
    phrogdriver, Feb 14, 2010
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    phrogdriver liberty risk

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    MCAS Cherry Point had the Full Monty.

    I think when the dunkers are due for refurbishment, they throw in the whole artificial storm package with it. When NKT replaced the old dunker with the new 3-axis-of-motion dunker on a crane, that's when they threw in all the other stuff. It was closed for almost a year.
    phrogdriver, Feb 14, 2010
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    CommodoreMid Whateva! I do what I want!

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    The SWET chairs (at least at Pcola) are different now. That cage thing surrounding them is gone and there are 2 free standing ones now. In one the door is behind you like if you were riding in the back of a helo, and one is like a cockpit door. Apparently (according to the water survival guys) they are a lot easier than the old ones, but they are more like the ones you see in the actual dunker.
    CommodoreMid, Feb 14, 2010
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    Scoob If you gotta problem, yo, I'll be part of it.

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    Ditto. I get to go for the fifth time when my next set of orders come, finally returning me to DIFOPS. Not looking forward to that little piece of it...
    Scoob, Feb 14, 2010
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    HeyJoe Fly Navy! ...or USMC

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    Just think of all the Puka People who would trade their DIFDEN orders for yours in a heartbeat.
    HeyJoe, Feb 14, 2010
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  6. srqwho Active Member

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    I don't know how old the new dunker in Pcola is, but I know that myself and a few others in my "crew" had some issues getting all straps on the harness to unlatch. When I was left seat in the "cockpit" 1 of the straps was being stubborn and the girl behind me got pretty anxious while I figured it out. And, if I remember correctly, the rear left seat has a panel they have to unlatch once the dunker has completely flipped over. They were pretty serious about making sure we waited until the dunker was completely submerged to unlatch it because I guess a few nervous studs opened it prematurely and the panel flew across the dunker and popped the stud across from them in the mouth, and I guess a tooth or 2 were lost in the process.
    srqwho, Feb 14, 2010
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    phrogdriver liberty risk

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    That's interesting, because on mine, the guys with the pop-out windows were told that if they were smart they should pop the window out on the way down.

    Those of us with the latched windows in the cockpit were SOL, though.
    phrogdriver, Feb 14, 2010
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    Gatordev Administrator

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    They seem to be a lot more anal at Pensacola, probably just because they deal w/ studs all the time. When I did my requal in Miramar in 2002, it was outside for the "storm" section, but they still had thunder and water hoses to simulate waves. When I did my R2/RP2 at Pensacola in 2005 (w/ the new dunker), they had the thunder and lightning w/ all the lights off. When I did my R3/RP3 in Jax in 2008, same same, they just were a lot more relaxed about how you got out. "Did you get out?" "Yeah..." "That's really all we care about."
    Gatordev, Feb 14, 2010
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    usmarinemike Now part of the 42%.

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    Yeah, they had all kinds of SOP/safety weirdness when I went through. I think the people with latches and the people with pop-OUT windows were allowed to pop'em before they hit the water. The pop-IN window(seat 8?) had to wait so they didn't break the nose of the person across from them.
    usmarinemike, Feb 14, 2010
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  10. srqwho Active Member

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    Like usmarinemike said, some of the windows have a hinge on them and some don't (the "pop-OUT" windows). These windows just fell wherever once they were released, and if that happened at a bad time, gravity takes over and the person across (or below depending on where the dunker is during its rotation) ends up eating it. The instructor that stood at the back of the dunker was a little jumpy about it too. I guess he was on the receiving end of said hatch on more than one occasion.
    srqwho, Feb 14, 2010
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    FlyinSpy Mongo only pawn, in game of life...

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    When I went thru at Pax in 2007 (with the full Magilla of new dunker and storm/thunder/raft), it was me, five O-5s...and a Marine 2-star. To say it was "more relaxed" was a bit of an understatement. Of course, I'm still trying to figure out how I, the junior guy by a longshot, ended up being the last man in the raft. In retrospect, maybe it makes perfect sense.... ;-)
    FlyinSpy, Feb 14, 2010
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  12. scoolbubba Well-Known Member

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    If you ain't cheatin, you ain't trying. I had my hand on that latch as soon as satan's jungle gym started moving.
    scoolbubba, Feb 14, 2010
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  13. Pags Boat Donkey

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    In Norfolk they let us pop the pilot windows before the "crash". Which is fairly realistic, since "WINDOWS - JETTISON (in the flare)"
    Pags, Feb 14, 2010
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  14. phrogpilot73 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be jettisoning mine WAY earlier than in the flare. Then again, I don't have a Tail Rotor to worry about...
    phrogpilot73, Feb 14, 2010
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  15. Pags Boat Donkey

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    If I had the time, I'd get em out earlier. But NATOPS specifically mentions the flare.
    Pags, Feb 14, 2010
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  16. exhelodrvr Active Member

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    Be careful - at least once an H-3 window was jettisoned by mistake, hit the landing gear sponson, bounced up, and damaged a couple of rotor blades. When HS-1 was flying mids (don't know if they were ROTC or USNA) one summer, one of them pulled up on the release handle, then put it back down without saying anything. The next guy in bumped the window, and it flew out.
    exhelodrvr, Feb 15, 2010
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    Gatordev Administrator

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    But really, if you're in the position where you're ready to jettison a window because you're going down, does it really matter if it hits something on the way down to the crash? Rotor blades are tough, they'll punch through a window and keep flying. Tail rotors, well, if you're in an auto, you don't really need them anyway.
    Gatordev, Feb 15, 2010
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  18. exhelodrvr Active Member

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    It's been a while, and the autos I did post-HT8 were just in the simulator, but they were a LOT easier with tail rotor control. The percentage of over water ditchings that are autos is pretty small, isn't it? (As in close to 0% when I was flying, from what I remember.)

    It may be a reasonable risk to take, though.
    exhelodrvr, Feb 15, 2010
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    Gatordev Administrator

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    Close to it for the -60. There's been a couple, but yeah, it's rare for both motors to die.

    That's all I was getting at. When your day is already gone bad, why sweat the little things? Standing by for NATOPS experts to overwhelm me w/ facts.
    Gatordev, Feb 15, 2010
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    m26 Active Member

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    Stupid question: Is the water in the dunker tank/pool chlorinated?
    m26, Feb 15, 2010
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  21. Jim123 molding (warping) the future of naval aviation

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    Yes- very.

    :)
    Jim123, Feb 15, 2010
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    phrogdriver liberty risk

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    Oh, yeah, it is.

    Even if the class got out by noon, I'd usually take an extra hour or two at lunch or the PX before driving home. I was tearing up so much it must've looked like I'd just been to a funeral!
    phrogdriver, Feb 15, 2010
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  23. burningfeathers Reading the grout jokes

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    Tis I. Thankfully the helo dunker was broken that day. :)

    Additionally the SEA bottle (what everyone else calls the HABD bottle) is one of my favorite inventions ever.
    burningfeathers, Feb 15, 2010
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    bunk22 Super *********

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    My last requal was at Miramar in 05 and it was easy. I only did 3 helo dunker rides, one of which was upright. The last was supposed to be all out the main door. In the end, we went out any window and all was good. I'm thinking my requal at P-cola in July won't be so easy. It will be my first ride in the new helo dunker.
    bunk22, Feb 15, 2010
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  25. phrogpilot73 Well-Known Member

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    Our NATOPS doesn't say when to jettison them, just to jettison them. I don't think I'd want to be fucking with doors in the flare. I'd want both pilots focusing on flying. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Nope. No mention of jettison in there ;)
    phrogpilot73, Feb 15, 2010
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