Aviator progression in the Navy

Helo guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a pilot has 24 months from the arrival to their fleet squadron to become qualified as aircraft commander (PC in your terms I believe). From an hours standpoint, maybe not much different but it seems that the 2 year timeline is a lot quicker then the 3-5 year timeframe the Army goes through.

3710 give an individual 24 months to make Aircraft Commander (HAC). After 24 months the individual is supposed to go to a FNAEB.
Most folks in my experience can make HAC in an Airwing squadron in 12-16 months.
For the expeditionary folks, I think it might be shorter. I have heard that you won't deploy until your an 2P so you will have about 6-9 months to make it from when you check into the squadron. In an Airwing squadron, I've seen it go longer since we don't self-impose the 2P requirement on folks for a long cruise.

The cross pollination I think would be a good thing, as someone who flew two very distinct fleet platforms. (SH-60Bs as a JO, E-2Cs as a SuperJO)

It did open my eyes as to the way different people could do stuff. And it also showed me that a lot of the stuff taught by WTIs about what Hawkeye is and what it can do for you as a 60B pilot (and vice versa) was oh, about 94% wrong.

Problem is the getting shot in the head by the "host" (or in my case new) community on FITREPS.

I was the SWO and QAO, and doing outstanding in both within 12 months of checkin. I made CAPC/PC faster than community norm, despite the retarded rules they put on it (could not go up for CAPC, until the guys who checked in even a day ahead of you had a shot, regarless of how good you are or bad they were)

I still got below CO average MP for my last pre-LCDR board FITREP because I was "too new" which killed me on making LCDR.

It has potential to be a bonus, but as long as guys get shot in the head, it's going to not be as helpful.

Kill Me.

I understand the points about career progression, but ever think maybe we've gone too far in the direction of valuing "well rounded career progression" over tactical acumen? And while I'm in no danger of ever being a CO, if I were, I'd rather have a guy with a variety of flying experience under his belt than a ready room of guys who jockeyed PowerPoint on a staff somewhere.

Yes, there's value in staff tours, and yes, there's value in having aviators on those staffs. But I think the game shouldn't be merely "community with the most admirals, wins".

No, it is designed to put bodies in billets that need to be filled. Any actual professional growth is a bonus.

Any Marines want to chime in on this? My impression from the Marines I instructed with at P'cola was that switching between platforms during a career is somewhat routine - I do know that all but one of them who are still flying, are flying something different from their first platform.

Some confusion here, I think. The 3-5 years is total time in service, not time with your first unit. I had well over 2 years total time in service when I left flight school for my unit (due to some long waiting periods between phases), and 3 1/2 years before I became a flight company platoon leader and started flying more than once every couple of weeks (due to being initially assigned to a maintenance unit). Warrant officers, of course, will be assigned to a flight company immediately but they can spend a long time in flight school too. I would say it is normal for an Army aviator to make PC within 12-24 months of getting to that point.

Those time lines pretty much synch up with a typical Naval Aviation.
18-24 months to Wings (from commission)
6-10 months for the RAG
12-24 months in first squadron until HAC designation.

12-15mo was fleet average for HSC EXP guys to make HAC. We could deploy guys PQMs to our Bahrain det because we still met the readiness requirements from guys who were already there. For USNS/LHD dets, most guys would make 2P in the work ups.

Can only speak as to what my front office called it. They called me a SuperJO based on timing. (remember, while I did get a 8 month delay in in Krock, I was a LT less than a year when I left HSL-42). I was senior to our WTIs in terms of time in grade, but only by a few months.

My CO who was the XO when I checked in, and wrote the last three FITREPs that counted (I went on terminal right after the COC) held it in importance, and I did way more as a VAW SWO than a HSL SWO. Probably because my CO was a Shoe at heart (self admitted) and LOVED instructions, training, etc far more than any HSL or VAW CO I had.

Just calling myself what they called me.

What is there to do as SWO?

- Route watchbill to XO
- Rewrite/reroute watchbill as dets change
- Send menacing emails as people don't sign up for next watchbill
- ???
- Profit!

Here is what I did as SWO
-Write 50 page instruction from scratch on SWO duties at XO direction
-Rewrite the emergency action plans for about, oh, everything
-Monthly and weekly training on obscure stuff
-What's a DET? (VAW squadron)
-Be the arbiter of all things JOPA, since everyone hates you.
-Stand more SDO than anyone else

I'm sure there is more, but Bitter JO IIPA from Battle Phrog Brewery did a pretty good job of erasing my VAW tour from memory.

Yeah. That was the XO's direction. I needed to "Set the standard" because I was the only JO who knew how to stand a proper watch or some bullshit like that.

I will admit. The watchstanding was pretty dicked up when I got there. Mostly because the squadron was coming out of being the E-2 squadron without a CAG (AKA "National Guard Bluetails")

Jebus.

Isn't the pre-mishap plan the ASO's baby? Ground stuff usually boils down to "call this list of people, draft and release this message." How does that go 50 pages?

Making coffee had a formal procedure.

Unlocking the squadron has a specified sequence

Briefing the CO has a different specified sequence than the XO

There is a formal written procedure for handing off duty on the boat in port, a separate one for underway no fly, another for underway fly, and fly/nofly at home. With an addendum if a "Non Aviator" is on duty, and how it differs.

Yes. It was painful to write.

So, looking back, was burning the bridge and leaving HSL worth it? Not trying to be sarcastic, but it seems your transition experience didn't go well.

A former Squadron CO's perspective:
1. As the SWO, you are probably the "senior LT", and (take a deep breath here...) you ARE the senior person who "stands watches"...live with it. (OMG...you would have thought the sky had fallen...previous "policy" was that the SWO was "off the watch bill".) How else would you know what's going on?
2. Your job IS to set the standard and to make sure the Watchbill is "fair and balanced". You can figure out the "points scale" for weekends, holidays, yadda yadda yadda, however you want...whatever you can sell to the Ready Room is fine by me. Got other issues? Ask the XO (first) or the Chaplain (always an option).
3. A disciplined "Snivel Log" is your friend, but don't let your JO bubbas "work you". Married guys don't get extra credit for the number of dependents they can claim on their taxes. Their job is to work "swaps" to their best advantage. Don't make their job YOUR job. Yes, it IS your job to track and be a part of the "approval process" for "swaps". It all should work out in the end.
4. Be flexible...there will always be operationally-required "hip-shot" deltas based on currency (night CQ comes to mind....but there are probably others), or special circumstances unbeknownst to you, my Padawan. Figure out how to normalize it the next couple of months.
5. Please remember that my " Squadron Duty Officer" is the FACE and the VOICE of this command to outsiders...and I probably have more than a passing interest in those in MY chain of command, but everyone who dials the number or pushes the button is an Outsider to start. Telephone, Squawk Box, in-person strolling into the Ready Room, [whatever exists today...on-line chat rooms or whatever...], how the SDOs (and you) conduct themselves and represent THIS command says a lot about how I am doing MY job. Comport yourself as an officer and gentleman until you know that the rules of the situation will allow for your rapier-like wit ["Ready Seven...Joe's Meat Market...What's Your Beef?" is appropriate in only very limited circumstances...].
6. Live with the fact that the XO and I have probably "excused" Warrant Officers and LDOs from the SDO bill. Any one of them have already stood more "watches" in their lifetimes than you will in your Navy/Marine career. And they're busy doing other stuff on this command's behalf.
7. Once your proposed Watchbill is approved and published...it's now a command Order. Treat it as such.

SWO isn't a bad gig...says you've earned some bones and are trusted to run a significant portion of the operation. If you figure out how to do this well (hell,...it isn't rocket science), it will be "one less thing" for you to have to worry about on that great and glorious day when the gods of Naval Aviation reach down and anoint YOU as a selected Commanding Officer.

I hope y'all are sorta working for that every day anyway...

I wasn't coming back to HSL as a DH on AD for sure. So yes, it kept me flying, and I got to do some pretty interesting stuff well beyond what your normal helo bubba does.

Luck and timing.. I went E-2s over CODs because my ID card got pulled out of a hat last. I'd probably be a LCDR and maybe a DH now if I had gone VRC. They just have a better track record of taking care of transitions than VAW does. I went in, did my best, got qualed as fast as I can, (I was always waiting on them, they were never waiting on me) and did everything I could to stack the deck in my favor. Just didn't work out due to the luck of the draw and timing. Got pulled up a year group, and got standard FNG FITREP based off my time in squadron vice job I was doing, which was all timing/luck with the particular squadron and CO there.

I'd do it again.

I get all that, and understand that most of it is just balancing the watchbill along with keeping JOs in check, so... yeah. Not saying that standing watch isn't a big deal, but that being SWO shouldn't be a ridiculous time-suck.

5-10 hours a week on average time suck for me.

If all you have to do is make the watch bill and counsel the occasional ding-dong, the it's easy. If your timing sucks and you're the man when the XO says To rewrite the instruction, then the suck factor can increase. The nice thing about SWO is that it makes you hate everyone equally, because someone is a,ways trying to skate out of watch and you're always getting called in front of the XO because of something someone did.