Aviation instructor career path

[Flash]

...why are they not trying to pull bodies from VQ/VP/HSC/etc that are briefed as healthy/overmanned and put them through VFA/VAQ/HM/HSM FRS. Got it, takes a while to get quals, but I would imagine that beats the hell out of not having bodies in the seats.

Between capacity and the time to train to train folks nowadays (~2 years from start to finishing the RAG) I am not sure the juice is with the squeeze when you will likely only get one good fleet tour out of most of the folks. Most would be senior O-3’s on the cusp of DH.

The current limited number of transitions works now because there are few and they don’t have a large impact on the comminties they are going to, a more significant number could have an adverse impact like I saw in my first squadron after I left (which already had an inordinately high number of transitions to begin with).

 

[Brett327]

I understand following the path, and hitting wickets, but that being said, I am quite surprised that PERS has not MORE actively recruited those either on 1st shore or 2nd sea from other communities to transition. @Brett327, @Farva01 in all seriousness you seem to have intelligent responses, why are they not trying to pull bodies from VQ/VP/HSC/etc that are briefed as healthy/overmanned and put them through VFA/VAQ/HM/HSM FRS. Got it, takes a while to get quals, but I would imagine that beats the hell out of not having bodies in the seats.

You'd be surprised what people that are staying in would do for an extra 100,000! Or grab those with somewhat strong records that are being shown the door. Looking forward to hearing responses and perspectives.

That's an interesting option that I haven't heard talked about. Not sure whether PERS has considered it. Obviously, the RW to HSM transition would make the most sense. Time to train non jet folks through the VTJ/FRS pipeline may be an issue. It can be challenging even for a VFA to VAQ DH transition to get up to speed qual-wise. Lots of potentially complicating factors, but certainly worthy of consideration.

 

[xj220]

I'd certainly consider sticking around for a VFA/VAQ FRS tour or something along those lines.

 

[Gatordev]

Is there actual data showing HSM needs bodies? I'm a few months (mostly) out of touch now, but I hadn't heard that it had come to a head yet, especially when the FRS is over-man...excuse me...is utilizing numerous available bodies in the IP cadre.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Pickle, if I told you this once, I told you this twice. Fuck this noise. Go to the Show. Affiliate and drill with the Training Command. You are up the hierarchy now. You have decide; do I want to be a pilot or a manager?

 

[picklesuit]

Pickle, if I told you this once, I told you this twice. Fuck this noise. Go to the Show. Affiliate and drill with the Training Command. You are up the hierarchy now. You have decide; do I want to be a pilot or a manager?

Five more years...I’m already contractually obligated to 17, no reason to quit at that point.

Plus, I’m in it to lead, the flying is just the gravy at this point. This is my chance to give back after ten years of taking.

Pickle

 

[FrankTheTank]

Five more years...I’m already contractually obligated to 17, no reason to quit at that point.

Plus, I’m in it to lead, the flying is just the gravy at this point. This is my chance to give back after ten years of taking.

Pickle

1. Actually if you go Show before year 18 and drill, you make more cash.
2. You don’t lead in the training command and it sounds like that’s what you want so you’re contradicting yourself.

Sounds like you pick manager.. Nothing wrong with that... But you can’t have both.. The further up you go, the less of a pilot you have to become.. Accept that reality.

 

[wlawr005]

I heard a nasty rumor that this is in the works. In particular, retraining helo guys in the T-45, FRS, and sending them to VFA as super JOs with zero quals in order to fill holes in the fleet. Anyone else heard this proposal, or is it just the rumor mill?

I call bullshit. I just begged the detailer to let me extend my JO tour for 7-12 months and they laughed at me. Production billets are #1 priority right now.

 

[UInavy]

Sounds like you pick manager.. Nothing wrong with that... But you can’t have both.. The further up you go, the less of a pilot you have to become.. Accept that reality.

If you're managing in a leadership position, you're doing it wrong. (Can't speak for VT IPs, just speaking about the Fleet in general.) Also, I respectfully disagree with 'The further up you go, the less of a pilot you have to become'. To a point. Sure, not many O-8s leading flights. Also, you don't fly much if you choose to stay with Uncle sugar from staff job to staff job to plus up your high-3. However, there are plenty of O-4/5/(some 6s) that are filling some solid logbooks. It's false to say that moving up means you 'have to' become less of a pilot.

I'll always point to the late Senator Mccain's great speech from 7 years ago:

https://www.usni.org/document/mccain-john-2011-137-10-1304pdf?magazine_article=8961

In part:

"Today, we hear a lot about ‘management’ and not enough about leadership. That worries me. One thing of which I am certain – there is a great difference between managers and leaders. Good managers are plentiful – in fact, our nation graduates over 150,000 MBAs ever year. But true leaders are rare. And believe me, there is a difference

--Leaders inspire people; managers, well, they “manage” people and assets.

--Leaders think about protecting and promoting their people; managers think about protecting their own careers.

--Leaders take charge and accept responsibility; managers often pass the buck to higher authority for fear of making a wrong decision.

--Leaders take risks when necessary; managers are taught to avoid risks whenever possible."

 

[picklesuit]

1. Actually if you go Show before year 18 and drill, you make more cash.
2. You don’t lead in the training command and it sounds like that’s what you want so you’re contradicting yourself.

Sounds like you pick manager.. Nothing wrong with that... But you can’t have both.. The further up you go, the less of a pilot you have to become.. Accept that reality.

I want to be in an operational unit, (here hee...unit) thus the reason I stayed in and went DH. I had all the right wickets to go FTS and VT’s, but chose this life.

I gave the Career Instructor Pilot gig an honest look, as anyone in my shoes should do, and determined it wasn’t really for me, at this time.

If I could do VT’s in the T-6, or be fully qualified in the T-45, I’d be more inclined to go that route. I’d also happily incur a longer commitment to transition to VFA/VAQ and be relevant in that community.

That all being said, the most use I can be to this man’s Navy is as a dirty Hinge, following the brass ring. I get to lead JO’s, Sailors, and deploy in my own community.

If enough good people decide to get out, they may scrape deep enough in the barrel to let me do this for another tour in a higher pay grade.

I’m not putting all my eggs in that basket, thus the look around at everything available.

I’m not really looking to fly on the outside, at this time, so I’ll keep trying to work the best deal I can while in.

 

[Python]

I want to be in an operational unit, (here hee...unit) thus the reason I stayed in and went DH. I had all the right wickets to go FTS and VT’s, but chose this life.

I gave the Career Instructor Pilot gig an honest look, as anyone in my shoes should do, and determined it wasn’t really for me, at this time.

If I could do VT’s in the T-6, or be fully qualified in the T-45, I’d be more inclined to go that route. I’d also happily incur a longer commitment to transition to VFA/VAQ and be relevant in that community.

That all being said, the most use I can be to this man’s Navy is as a dirty Hinge, following the brass ring. I get to lead JO’s, Sailors, and deploy in my own community.

If enough good people decide to get out, they may scrape deep enough in the barrel to let me do this for another tour in a higher pay grade.

I’m not putting all my eggs in that basket, thus the look around at everything available.

I’m not really looking to fly on the outside, at this time, so I’ll keep trying to work the best deal I can while in.

What do you mean by fully qualified in the T-45? That can mean a few things so asking for clarification.

 

[picklesuit]

What do you mean by fully qualified in the T-45? That can mean a few things so asking for clarification.

Allowed to chase around other T-45’s, fly to the boat, etc. As a non-jet guy I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t happen. Nobody likes being the fat kid but at least I can acknowledge it...

 

[SynixMan]

I understand following the path, and hitting wickets, but that being said, I am quite surprised that PERS has not MORE actively recruited those either on 1st shore or 2nd sea from other communities to transition.

Community transitions aren't a big priority when they can just mint a Nugget with those resources instead. A straight stick helo guy isn't going to get much of an abbreviated syllabus going VTJs and then FRS, and the nugget they make will be obligated for longer. Considering VTJs are the "chokepoint" in production of Cat 1s right now, they're all in on VTJ IP manning, hence this program. The only thing you bring is a record of not being a dirtbag in the fleet (FITREPs) and a can-do attitude.

 

[squorch2]

Five more years...I’m already contractually obligated to 17, no reason to quit at that point.

Five years is a lot of life - highly recommend keeping your options open.

 

[FrankTheTank]

--Leaders inspire people; managers, well, they “manage” people and assets.

--Leaders think about protecting and promoting their people; managers think about protecting their own careers.

--Leaders take charge and accept responsibility; managers often pass the buck to higher authority for fear of making a wrong decision.

--Leaders take risks when necessary; managers are taught to avoid risks whenever possible."

You just made my case.. Thank you!