API Curriculum Mod

Bs

Ok, I think whoever posted this is full of shit. One of the things they constantly say in API is "this program isn't designed to attrite people", it's also been 9 months since this was originally posted so I think it's safe to say BULLSHIT!

Easy there, killer. Things "change" and remember that the time it takes to implement things can lengthy (ie getting the T-6 at Whiting). There will always be gouge/rumors -some of it is well based, others, not so much. As they say, "live by the gouge, die by the gouge."

All I have to say is......wat?

I'm gonna go ahead and say you're wrong, based on the fact that Schools Command staff have confirmed the rumor in this thread. They've also said (last post on the previous page) that it doesn't look like it will be happening any time soon, which certainly appears to be the case right now. So as has been said, it IS supposed to happen eventually, but it will be well into the future.

I dont know about changing the length of the program, but I was told by my Aero II instructor today that API is going to change to emphasize a lot more jet stuff in the Aero courses at the begining of the new fiscal year. The reasoning behind the change was something about the JPATS getting up and running and the need to keep up with it. So, Aero could get a little tougher just by virtue of the fact that it is more stuff to learn.

what do jets have to do with Aero? lifts are lifts, drags are drags. no one is flying a jet in primary anyways, and most of us aren't flying them in advanced either...?

Well the Aero book is the only one with a plane on the front. Perhaps they'll change it from a T-34 to a Goshawk. Other than that...

Currently, you don't have to know that thrust available and power available graphs for jets (and how to manipulate them), just props for the aero classes. Not that the jet curves are that difficult to learn.

Does Jet Advanced Aero deal w/ compressible/transonic flow? If so, and if they want to integrate that in to API, then it would warrant some changes to the syllabus. Transonic flow is certainly a different regime of aerodynamics that follows some different rules (actually they're the same rules, but with the incompressibility assumption removed, which makes it messier), and it is probably the most complex regime of external aerodynamics to understand and model.

cue MB's NERDS photo...

I'm in Aero I this week and we're learning both.

NERDS!!!!

I like how Master, an ME, is calling us aero dudes nerds, when he has done far more as a practical engineer than any of us. Or, at least me with just my undergrad.

I think we learned it, but didn't have to know it for the test. Either way, it's not that big of a deal.

Aero, ME...you're all nerds in my book.

Shaddup and get back to flipping my burger.

(Standard disclaimer: This is a joke. Unwad your poli-sci panties if you're reading this post and wadding as we speak.)

My major is dumber than that, I'm afraid. I try to avoid talking about it.

How'd you want that burger again?

I didn't didn't realize that Uncle Fester was staff here at API (my fault) so I was under the assumption that all this sprouted from a student trying to start up a rumor. Also MIDNJAC said it was going to start within a month (that would've been in June of 08) and it's now Feb 09. I understand things take time to get in place and obstacles get in the way but I thought if it were 'supposed' to start in a month it would've happened by now. I also would've thought this would've been a hot topic in and around API/A-Pool since this seems to be a pretty big change. This thread is the only place I've heard about it since I got here in September.

I don't think shortening the program would do much good... I've known some pretty smart people that are really great test takers and rarely studied for anything but probably don't have the coordination or motor skills to fly a plane very well. In short, I don't think academic performance is the best indicator of being a good pilot or not.

Now that I realize there's truth to this modified curriculum I was wondering if anyone knew any more about this JPATS program and whether it only applies to the T-6 or will it be implemented with the T-34 as well (since Whiting and Corpus will probably be using the T-34 for a while longer) and what does JPATS stand for? Also has anyone heard of the current time frame they plan on implementing this?

If you haven't figured it out by now, not EVERYTHING about the Navy is seeing if you'll be a good pilot or not. Sometimes, there are just hoops you gotta jump through. Did getting sprayed with a hose while doing pushups in the sand prove that I'm going to be a good officer? No. It's a retarded hoop we had to jump through. Does getting 100% on your API tests mean you're more likely to get jets? Shit, does it even mean you're more likely to wing?? Nope. It's just a hoop to jump through.

Plus it isn't COMPLETELY unrelated to flying. There is a SHIT TON of knowledge and procedures you have to learn in a short period of time during flight training. we do in 1-2 years what civilian pilots do in 4+. You can KNOW YOUR SHIT and be an average pilot and wing just fine. You can also be fvcking Chuck Yeager, and not know shit and attrite or barely squeak by. The point is, is that if you are an average stick but know you're shit, you'll likely be OK. If you don't know your shit, you had BETTER be Chuck Yeager, because that's the ONLY thing keeping you from the door.

And last, but not least, on top of it all: I sincerely believe that a group of guys of a MUCH higher rank than you have spent quite some time considering the time to train at API. You know, longer than your passing thoughts on the matter.

Damn bogey, people around here have beat the damn humility right into you haven't they?!

I never said that knowing your shit wasn't important, of course it is, its just that I don't really agree (as I see it from my low point on the totem pole) that it should be the only thing used against you at the very beginning. If they want to get all of the attrites out in API, it seems to me they might be losing some of those guys who are the 'fvcking Chuck Yeagers' but might not be able to deal with a condensed version of API. Of course I know that people with a lot more stripes than I have put a considerable amount of time and effort into condensing the program and making it better. I just hope the Navy & Marine Corps don't lose some really good aviators who might not be able to absorb 6 weeks of information in half the time. I'm also a proponent of "If it works don't fix it" and it has worked for quite a few years. It seems that one of the biggest reasons for this change is to save money, which sucks but thats usually the way things fall.

That is what they were talking about adding as far as it was explained to me.

This is another case of why talking about something you have yet to experience is a bad idea. Unless you are severely uncoordinated then you can be taught the required monkey skills. Good headwork and good Situational Awareness are much more important skills for flying successfully than having the world's greatest motor skills. Guys with 35 NSSs in primary go to South Field and manage to learn to hover, a skill that is entirely hand-eye coordination.

What the tests do is better indicate your ability to learn and retain the vast amount of information you need to learn in flight school. Until you've been in your fleet squadron a while, the amount of information you need to learn seems to grow exponentially. If you can't handle the tests in API, then you probably can't handle the amount of information you need to learn latter. The volume of water coming out of the fire hydrant only increases.

ghost

It's great that everyone is tearing apart my posts and all... but I was wondering if anyone could also answer the questions I had about the JPATS program (see above)?

Ghost is right on.

Ground school for the E-2 is shorter than the T-45 which was shorter than API.

And look at the increasing complexity in decreasing time. If I did not have a semi-solid background, I would be lost in the sauce here at the RAG.

Some of the IPs may argue that anyways, but at least I have a clue of WHAT the majic boxes are doing and what happens when I push and pull on things up in the cockpit.

If you can't handle API at twice the pace, you shouldn't be a Naval Aviator or NFO.

I partied my ass off in API and rocked it. Now, not so much. A harder, shorter 3 week API would be more telling of how you will handle things down the road. And you will still have your weekends free.

Hey the Jet stuff is in the book but not on the test, as far as the curves go