Any FAC's out there?

[SoloDaNINJA]

Hello,

Have any of you guys served a tour as an FAC? If so, would you mind me asking you some questions about what its like?

 

[phrogpilot73]

My last tour on active duty was with BLT 1/8 as the Battalion AirO/FAC. In addition to being a Reserve Phrog pilot, I'm also a GS-12 at EWTGLANT as a Training Instructor for Tactical Air Control Party School (where they teach new FACs/JTACs). Am I qualified enough to answer your questions?

 

[SoloDaNINJA]

Hahaha, I suppose so, since I do not know what half of those abbreviations mean.

My questions are pretty much regarding details of life as FAC. For instance, do FAC's deploy as a part of their 1 year tour? As an FAC can you volunteer, and get assigned to ANGLICO? How close are FAC's to the front lines, and do they ever have to actually engage in combat, actually with their rifle, not just calling in air support? Are there any toher Marines you work closely with on a day to day basis, or do you feel like a lone man in a whole battalion? When you are training for deployment, do you just hone you FAC skills, or do you also train to increase your skills as a rifleman? I guess what it boils down to is, when you are FAC, are you just an Air Traffic Controller, assigned to battalion headquarters, or are you actually one of "the guys" out there on the frontlines fighting for the men next to you, with the ability to call in air strikes?

I dont ask these things because I think I am all gung-ho and that its gonna be fun to shoot people and watch their head explode, I am not like that, I am just trying to get the picture of what its like.

Thank you for your service, and assistance.

 

[phrogpilot73]

The current construct is that an Infantry Battalion has 4 FACs assigned. One is the Battalion Air Officer, one is his assistant, and there are two FACs that are assigned to the companies. All four of them are trained as FACs and are capable of doing the job of a FAC. You are not the "lone man" in a Battalion, all four are administratively attached to the S-3 section of the Battalion. The Battalion AirO and his assistant will likely do some time as a Battalion Watch Officer, and at least in my Battalion - it was expected that I might be a duty expert on aviation - but I was an Officer, and a Capt. The Battalion AirO's job is mainly to advise the Battalion Commander/OpsO on the use of aviation fires - and manage the FACs/JTACs in the Battalion. You will not just work on your FACing skills. You will do investigations, be the Battalion MCCS Officer, and even possibly become a company commander while they're waiting for someone to check in (not a line company mind you, just H&S).

As it stands right now, you will deploy on your FAC tour. I don't know of any "non-deploying" FAC tours out there anymore, save Regiment/Division AirO and Tanks. How close do they get to the front lines? That depends on what company they're assigned to, what that company's responsibility is, etc... I can tell you that my buddy is suffering from PTSD after his FAC tour - and it wasn't from saying "Cleared Hot". He was in Ramadi during the bad times. To put it more simply - your primary weapon as a FAC is the radio. But if air isn't on station and you're in a shit sandwich, every Marine is an infantry rifleman first. Does that make sense?

As for honing your skills as a rifleman, you aren't going to take range time away from the guys that need it. You'll requalify on the M-16/M-4/M-9 but that's about it. Your job is to be a FAC. Make sure your RTO gets PLENTY of range time - because he's going to be the one protecting you.

And yes, there are FACs in ANGLICO.

 

[SoloDaNINJA]

Ok, thanks, that helps. So what you're saying is, that for at least the 2 FAC's assigned to companies, they will go out on patrol with men and do work that requires them to have a rifle, its not just a "sit back at the CP and make sure airplanes dont run into each other" kind of job. The battalion air officer and his assistant, are they going to be guys who have previous expierience as FACs, what determiens who is the AO and who is assigned to a company.

As far as ANGLICO, I realize there are FAC's, but what I mean is, do Pilots doing a tour as FAC get to volunteer for ANGLICO? Or is it full time FAC's only? Or are all FAC's just pilots doing a one year tour?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Boomhower]

This is the first time I've ever seen someone with like 2 posts that actually has good questions.

Kudos & rep.

 

[SoloDaNINJA]

Haha thank you, this is actually the first forum I have come to that people havent chewed me out about this question, giving me the usual "put down your video games and get real" speech. I appreciate that.

 

[eas7888]

This is the first time I've ever seen someone with like 2 posts that actually has good questions.

Kudos & rep.

What are my chances of becoming a pilot?

I wanna fly jets.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Ok, thanks, that helps. So what you're saying is, that for at least the 2 FAC's assigned to companies, they will go out on patrol with men and do work that requires them to have a rifle, its not just a "sit back at the CP and make sure airplanes dont run into each other" kind of job. The battalion air officer and his assistant, are they going to be guys who have previous expierience as FACs, what determiens who is the AO and who is assigned to a company.

The two FACs that are assigned to rifle companies are guys whose sole reason for being is to be a rifle company FAC. The Battalion AirO and his assistant won't have a previous tour as a FAC - they're just the senior of the four guys. They do mainly airspace management, air support requests, joint terminal attack requests, work in the FSCC (approving fires missions) and go out with the companies when needed. None of them are just sitting in the COC making sure that airplanes don't run into each other. I was the Battalion AirO, so I spent A LOT of time in the COC - as Battalion Watch Officer, and also in the FSCC approving aviation fires missions. It's an incredibly rewarding tour.

As far as ANGLICO, I realize there are FAC's, but what I mean is, do Pilots doing a tour as FAC get to volunteer for ANGLICO? Or is it full time FAC's only? Or are all FAC's just pilots doing a one year tour?

OK, there's a difference between FACs and JTACs. A JTAC is a ground MOS guy who is qualified to perform terminal control of aviation fires. A FAC is a pilot who is qualified to perform terminal control of aviation fires. All FACs (with some exception) are only there for a one year tour, it's not their primary MOS. It's not the ground guy's primary MOS either - but they will generally stick around a battalion or ANGLICO longer than a pilot. As far as ANGLICO is concerned - a FAC is a FAC is a FAC. However, because ANGLICO gets more money, more time on the hill, more gucci gear - it's generally more sought after than a traditional FAC tour. However, if you want for it - and let it be known early, you'll get it. Personally - I'd want to do my first FAC tour with a Battalion. You can weasel your way into ANGLICO as a Major, but you CAN'T weasel your way into a Battalion as a Major.

This is the first time I've ever seen someone with like 2 posts that actually has good questions.

No kidding!

 

[gaijin6423]

Regimental Air O's deployed with me last year. ...And they were the bane of my existence, save for one who arrived later during my time and did some damn fine work "up north".

Phrog's right on the money about being in the thick of it, as some of my acquaintances will attest to. Even some of the folks who primarily controlled via more removed means have some serious issues. While it can never compare to people flinging rounds at you, there's something eerily surreal about saying the word and watching shitheads disintegrate.

ANGLICO's a slightly different beast, and I know a few people, ground and air side alike, who begged, borrowed and stole to get orders there.

 

[SynixMan]

Are Navy guys in the ANGLICO units as well, or just Marines?

 

[SoloDaNINJA]

You can weasel your way into ANGLICO as a Major, but you CAN'T weasel your way into a Battalion as a Major.

So you can go on more than one FAC tour after another tour in the cockpit? I ask because you used "Major" and surely Aviators dont become Majors after one tour, which implies you get B-Billets after every tour? It was implied to me that you only get B-Billets after your first tour. Dang. Im liking USMC Aviation more than Air Force every day.

The reason I am interested in ANGLICO is the oppurtunity to go to jump school, and it sounds like since ANGLICO units seem to function more on their own, and without a battalion of Marines behind them all the time they must function as a Rifle squad too. But I could be wrong, thats just what I heard.

 

[Swanee]

So you can go on more than one FAC tour after another tour in the cockpit? I ask because you used "Major" and surely Aviators dont become Majors after one tour, which implies you get B-Billets after every tour? It was implied to me that you only get B-Billets after your first tour. Dang. Im liking USMC Aviation more than Air Force every day.

The reason I am interested in ANGLICO is the oppurtunity to go to jump school, and it sounds like since ANGLICO units seem to function more on their own, and without a battalion of Marines behind them all the time they must function as a Rifle squad too. But I could be wrong, thats just what I heard.

Saying you want to do ANGLICO because you want to go to jump school is like saying you want to be an Aviator because you want to go to API and do the helo dunker...

 

[Birdog8585]

Good FAC info thread thanks to the OP portraying a sense of professionalism in his initial post, then following through on down the line...+1!

...as far as the whole AF vs. Marine Aviation thing, do a search and go elsewhere on the forum for that, otherwise this thread is gonna turn into a AF-loose-ball-dog-pile...yeah yeah, bad reference...shut up, im watching the game...

 

[phrogdriver]

It was implied to me that you only get B-Billets after your first tour. Dang. Im liking USMC Aviation more than Air Force every day.
.

Weirdo.

The general B-billet subject has been hit ad nauseum before, so I won't beat it up too much here. For officers it's any billet outside one's primary MOS. So, they range from OSO to flight school IP to NROTC instructor to FAC and so on. You will generally alternate either fleet and B-billet or fleet and school. Too much of either is regarded as a bad thing.

Anyway, I'm by no means an ANGLICO expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express and know three or four guys who've done it. They don't usually function as an independent unit. They attach to other units that need expertise in air and naval gunfire control. This is often other services and even foreign militaries.