USN Any 1811's here?

[Hail_HYDRA!]

Are there any 1811's (federal special agents or criminal investigators) on here in the reserves and if so, what has been your challenges and rewards in balancing two challenging and time consuming, yet, incredibly rewarding careers? What would you recommend to be successful?

 

[jagM3]

What would you recommend to be successful?

Make it known to your CO on the first day you check into your unit as tactfully as possible that you are an 1811 and will likely be needing to submit a significant number of reskeds, many with little to no notice, and that these are non-negotiable. And if you're an 1811, understand that regardless of how many motivated Naval officers are in your reserve unit, that at no point in time will the Navy ever take priority over your civilian job as an 1811. You are different and don't let the Navy tell you otherwise. Finally, because you're an 1811, familiarize yourself with the legislation surrounding your status as a "critical" or "emergency essential" government employee and how that relates to the reserves -- basically the gist of it is that the Navy is forbidden by law from ever involuntarily mobilizing you as a reservist, even during a time of war, because Congress has made the determination that you are more valuable during a time of war to the United States as a civilian than you would ever be on active duty in the military. This is a catch 22, however, and you need to understand the nuances of this. Every year the Navy Reserves makes you re-submit a civilian employer questionnaire form and there is a box on there that says "Are you a critical or emergency essential government employee?" or something to that effect. If you check YES, your status in the Navy will immediately go to Navy Reserve Forces Command for evaluation and you will be transferred from the SELRES to the IRR. If you check NO, then you remain in the SELRES and no one will know or for that matter, care, and you'll be able to go many years by continuously telling the Navy each year that NO you are not a critical government employee. This will, however, come up whenever your number is called for a mob and then there's no hiding it. The Navy tacitly accepts "key", "critical", and "emergency essential" government employees into its ranks as reservists because frankly speaking, these are the most qualified Americans to serve in the Navy Reserves, so the Navy when it comes to these situations would rather prefer not to know the truth rather than transfer a third of their most qualified reservists to the IRR.

 

[Flash]

Are there any 1811's (federal special agents or criminal investigators) on here in the reserves and if so, what has been your challenges and rewards in balancing two challenging and time consuming, yet, incredibly rewarding careers? What would you recommend to be successful?

I've had several 1811's in my units and one I worked with on a ADSW, they usually made it work but a lot of depended on the agency and the particular billet they were in at the time. Most of the FBI types had a tougher time than others but in my current unit we had an FBI agent who worked cyber and had it easier than the others I have known. One of the Intel O's in my unit now is an NCIS agent in the same city as the unit and makes it to most drill weekends, while his job is busy he still has enough time for the unit.

...basically the gist of it is that the Navy is forbidden by law from ever involuntarily mobilizing you as a reservist, even during a time of war, because Congress has made the determination that you are more valuable during a time of war to the United States as a civilian than you would ever be on active duty in the military...

Do you have something to cite for that? I know of the critical and essential exemption but have never heard it used as a blanket exemption for 1811's and I don't think it would be legal. I wouldn't be surprised if some agencies might try to do that for their agents, up until ~10-15 years ago at least the FBI and Secret Service prohibited their agents from being in the reserves, but that was found to be illegal and so I imagine an exemption from MOB's would be as well. No one, not even federal LEO's, is irreplaceable.

...these are the most qualified Americans to serve in the Navy Reserves, so the Navy when it comes to these situations would rather prefer not to know the truth rather than transfer a third of their most qualified reservists to the IRR.

Okay, settle down a little bit. To say that they are the 'most qualified' reservists, much less a third of them, is a bit much.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Words

Sarcasm?

 

[jagM3]

Do you have something to cite for that? I know of the critical and essential exemption but have never heard it used as a blanket exemption for 1811's and I don't think it would be legal. I wouldn't be surprised if some agencies might try to do that for their agents, up until ~10-15 years ago at least the FBI and Secret Service prohibited their agents from being in the reserves, but that was found to be illegal and so I imagine an exemption from MOB's would be as well. No one, not even federal LEO's, is irreplaceable.

Yes: 32 CFR Appendix A to Part 44.

The federal law is VERY explicit, specifically detailing:

"The Deputy Secretary of Defense shall adjudicate, before mobilization, conflicts between the mobilization manpower needs of the civilian sector and the military that the Ready Reserve screening process has identified, but has not resolved.

To ensure that Federal employees essential to the continuity of the Federal Government are not retained as members of the Ready Reserve, the following guidance is provided:

Conduct annual screening program as provided for by the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs.

Federal Agency heads, or their designees, concerned shall designate those positions that are of essential nature to, and within, the organization as “key positions,” and shall require that they shall NOT be filled by Ready Reservists to preclude such positions from being vacated during a mobilization. Upon request from Federal Agencies, Secretaries of the Military Departments shall verify the essential nature of the positions being designated as “key,” and shall transfer Ready Reservists occupying key positions to the Standby Reserve or the Retired Reserve or shall discharge them, as applicable, under 10 U.S.C. 10149, except as specified in § 44.4 (b)."

It is a black and white issue under federal law -- emergency essential key government personnel may not be legally permitted to serve in the SELRES. Of course, there are a multitude of 1811s and others who fit into this category serving SELRES in the Navy Reserves, but it must be understood they are doing so at their own risk and more often than not, simply not declaring their status as a key government employee to the Navy Reserves, either in an attempt to not be transferred to the IRR or because of their own ignorance (I know many 1811s, particularly from non-premier agencies, who have no idea about this and thus always check "no" each year during the annual screening).

FBI, USSS, and others are all still emergency essential "key" government employees and their civilian agencies are fully permitted under federal law from prohibiting them from mobilizing, even in the event of a volunteer mob. Internal policies within FBI and USSS prohibited their SAs from serving as reservists historically, however these were merely internal agency policies; the internal policies now permit SAs to serve as reservists, however their status as emergency essential key government employees at no point has changed and both agencies, in accordance with federal law, can reject any mobilization they military may attempt to levy whether voluntary or involuntary. All military branches have chosen to approach the law differently; for example, the Army Reserves will openly allow emergency essential key government employees to serve in their selected reserves and will not involuntarily mobilize these individuals without pre-coordination with their civilian agencies. This, of course, requires significant manpower to enable the flexibility that the Army Reserves has chosen to apply so as to ensure these individuals can remain SELRES. On the other hand, the Navy Reserves has decided to not waste their time on anyone whom the Navy cannot involuntarily mobilize at any date, time, or place of the Navy's choosing and the Navy's internal policy is to swiftly transfer, pending review at Millington, ANY Navy SELRES reservist straight to the IRR upon receiving an annual reserve screening questionnaire indicating their status as an emergency essential key government employee -- this can be verified with Millington.

As a matter of policy and consistency, OPM has designated the 1811 designator as an emergency essential key government employee regardless of agency, and federal agencies, particularly the smaller ones, simply defer to OPM policy regarding these matters. The OPM policy is for blanketing emergency essential "key" coverage of 1811s is for a variety of reasons, but the gist of it is that for the same reasons 1811s and only 1811s receive LEAP, these are the same reasons for which they are blanketed emergency essential.

Under the scope of federal law and OPM policy, the clear interpretation can be made that FLEOs holding the 1811 designator who are emergency essential key government employees are irreplaceable over military duty, however the boat load of 1801s, 0082s, and other federal LEOs are not (unless their specific agency designates them as such). I know many 0082 DUSMs who do 10x the work of an 1811 bureacrat, but the law is pretty clear.

For anyone who does in fact find themselves in this dilemma or is reading this thread and now questioning their own status, the most responsible thing which I would strongly recommend would be to consult with a federal labor attorney or your unit JAG before filling out your next annual reserve screening questionnaire to ensure you do the right thing as required under federal law and do not find yourself in a bind later on when the Navy has involuntary mob orders with your name on it -- that is not the time to realize your status as an emergency essential key government employee.

 

[jagM3]

Sarcasm?

Not being sarcastic, I am genuinely trying to educate the readers on here as very few people from my experience are aware of this and 25 year old outdated pre-9/11 internal agency policies are still getting passed around the Navy as if it was true.

Also, the federal law does not only apply to 1811s, it applies to a wide variety of federal civilian employees. Do you work in some support capacity for the Energy Department? You're probably emergency essential and don't even know it. If you're a federal employee of any job designator, 1811 or otherwise, you are responsible for verifying your status with your agency or department and truthfully reporting your status to the Navy.

 

[Flash]

Yes: 32 CFR Appendix A to Part 44.

The federal law is VERY explicit....Under the scope of federal law and OPM policy, the clear interpretation can be made that FLEOs holding the 1811 designator who are emergency essential key government employees are irreplaceable over military duty

But nowhere does it say that 1811's are exempt from MOB'ing and I haven't seen or heard any OPM guidance on that either.

While I am not an 1811 or pretend to know all of the ins and outs of how they work with the reserves I am not unfamiliar with the whole emergency essential and key personnel policy, I am a federal civil servant and when I was MOB'd some folks in my office had the bright idea to try and pull that rabbit out of hat to get me to stay. My office chief wasn't fond of trying to pull that trick and neither was I so it didn't even get past the bright idea stage.

I've also known scores of other reservists who work as federal civil servants, from Congressional staffers to SES's in national security positions and yes...even a handful of 1811's, who have been tagged to MOB and I don't know a single one has been able to pull the essential personnel card or who has wanted to either. A Deputy National Security Advisor MOB'd as an Intel officer a few years ago, if anyone would be considered 'essential' it would be someone like him. And last but not least my unit's resident NCIS agent hasn't heard of any sort of policy like that, official or unofficial, existing and he is on the short list to MOB right now.

So what might be a 'clear interpretation' by one lawyer may not be to another and in practice it doesn't seem the policy for many 1811's. And while you might recommend consulting a lawyer I would ask why someone would be willing to join the reserves in the first place knowing they couldn't be mobilized, arguably the core reason reserves exist in the first place. To me that isn't a legal issue but an ethical and moral one.

For the OP, I would ask your HR folks and coworkers who are reservists what your agency's policy is for reserves if they have one to find out what the ground truth is where you work.

 

[vxc961]

Circa 2008, per a dude in my unit who was FBI: “if you worked national security matters and got tagged for a MOB, the FBI would look at what you were doing NS-wise, and (without any input at all fm the 1811) determine if you job as an 1811 would provide more benefit to National Security than your MOB billet. This wasn’t just a rubber stamp on the FBIs part, but rather actually a “what happens if this dude is gone for that long”. FBI would make it it’s case, but DOD would have the final say. For those FBI guys norking National Security, the FBI would not do a thing and they’d MOB as anybody else would.

 

[Polar27]

Maybe if you’re in a high level unit in the bureau or HSI, USSS on a full time protective assignment, or attached to a JTTF. Most 1811 jobs? No way. If you have a reservist 1811 who works for Smithsonian OIG, he or she is going to his/her reserve unit in an emergency.

 

[vxc961]

Polar, can you define “ high level unit?”

I’m pretty sure the way it works is that the 1811 agency can argue “this 1811 contributes more to National Security in his 1811 job than he would as a reservists” but the 800lb gorilla (DOD) makes the call.

I think everyone ( DOD, CIV agency, and the dude himself*) realize that this means instead of eight months notice, the next guy six weeks to cover that MOB.

“Dude himself”. My God is Lebowski a great movie or what?

 

[Polar27]

Basically, a CT or CI unit, or a protective detail.... some kind of unit that has a literal direct nexus to national security. If DOD says we need a reservist but the Bureau or USSS says he/she is working national security related cases or protecting someone important, I don't think there would be an issue.

 

[Hair Warrior]

[truncated]...I would ask why someone would be willing to join the reserves in the first place knowing they couldn't be mobilized, arguably the core reason reserves exist in the first place. To me that isn't a legal issue but an ethical and moral one.

^ this