You obviously don't see the humor in an entity that preaches tolerance acting in an intolerant fashion.
Ok, I'll come clean.... I'm Gene Simmons.....aka Dr. Love.....aka God of Thunder and Rock and Roll. And to set the record strait, I had nothing to do with "Beth".
I've known one or two Marines in my life, and have hung out with a couple of snipers in the past as well... Here's my guess as to the genesis: Sniper 1: "Dude, this book says the Waffen SS had the best snipers in the world!" Sniper 2: "Fuck them. WE'RE the best snipers in the world!" And so they decided to steal their logo to prove they were the best. And it stuck. Or, it could rely on Otto's theory about shit he heard from a buddy, who knew a guy, that told him his girlfriend dated a Scout Sniper two boyfriends ago, and that she said they were racist bastards. And for the record, yes - the SS had some of the best snipers in the world. Multiple snipers with 100+ kills. As opposed to the LEGENDARY Carlos Hathcock, who had a pitiful 93 kills.
I don't get it. What exactly is everyone worked up about? Isn't taking symbols of hate and transforming them into symbols of good a positive thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation I'm certain the amount of time people allocate to being offended is inversely proportional to the time they spend contributing anything of value to society. To make matters worse, people who are actually achieving things with their lives have to waste their time hearing about how what they did was so horribly offensive. These Marines will probably end up having more hours in sensitivity training than they will on the range this year. We'll probably have to de-fund another F-35 to pay for the planning, designing, writing up, re-planning, redesigning, rewriting, and maybe even executing (is that word offensive to people who've been executed?) extra training on how not to offend absolutely anyone. Ever. So yeah, the lightning bolt S's are probably not the best idea for a logo, but let's also admit, taking out any anti-semitic connotations, it's a pretty fucking cool symbol. Nazi's may have been assholes, but they were assholes with STYLE.
Phrog It was impossible to ignore your sarcasm regarding Hathcock. Quite a few of his were not just take a position on a hill and shoot people. they required a lot of fieldcraft and sneaking into position with a great deal of stealth and patience, and after the fact, getting out again. There was a sniper in Finland by name of Simo Hayha who had more than 500 confirmed kills and many of them were at 200-300 meters. There was a Russian woman who had about 300 kills. As for the scout sniper team that used the SS for a logo, to them it meant Scout Sniper rather than a couple of lighting bolts and the Nazi conotations. What is pitiful about 93 kills? All of it. Too damned bad we have to kill anyone but that is life. Your comments are offensive to me. Semper Fi Rocky - USMC Scout Sniper Association #198
You are correct, my post was dripping with sarcasm. And I in no means meant to offend. I've been around the Marine Corps long enough that if I see an SS tattoo/flag, etc displayed by a Marine - I assume it's a Scout Sniper, not a neo-Nazi. As for Carlos Hathcock, I have nothing but the utmost respect for him. He made scout snipers in the USMC what they are today. He is a legend - I actually had the honor/privilege of meeting him at a gun show many years ago, and even have an autographed picture. My comment about "pitiful" was geared towards anyone who may try and point out that although the USMC scout snipers view themselves as the best, the premiere scout sniper had less kills than a lot of SS snipers. However, as you pointed out - it's apples and oranges. Hathcock's 93 confirmed kills involved a lot more tradecraft and skill. I guess I should have used a smilie...
I'd just like to point out that the REAL difference between this symbol being used by Neo-Nazis and by USMC Scout Snipers is this: One group is legally allowed to use this symbol as a representation of the values they hold, and are allowed to freely express those values under the protection afforded them by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. The other, signed this right away themselves in exchange for the privelege to actively protect that group's (and ALL American's) right. The real irony here is that a third group, who is the target of the free speech exercised by the first group and protected by the second, is taking this opportunity to attack the second group for its use of the symbol which clearly has no association with the views held by the first. ...and no, I'm not defending the Scout Snipers here, I'm just expressing my frustration at just how fucked up Americans are. I'll bet you could freely display that flag in Afghanistan, and nobody would complain about it...oh wait...
Oh come off it with the First Amendment bullshit. Look, you signed up to do the Man's bidding. Means you play by his rules, which can change at any given time. It also means you're part of a political entity, so when the masses react negatively, you can expect that a few will be hammered/sacrificed for the good of the service.
You're looking at the problem in a vacuum with this point of view. As an individual, people are free to "express" themselves as they see fit, and if someone wants to sport what some would consider a Nazi symbol - enjoy. As soon as you're a representative of the USG, you don't have that luxury - you're instruments of national power, plain and simple. There's nothing ironic about it at all. At that point you're beholden to the norms and whims of that organization and it's leadership. None of us has free speech when we're in uniform, nor should we. Those of you who can't discern the difference need an attitude adjustment. Brett
That was my intent, really. I'm not posting trying to provide the ultimate, undisputable, "I know more than you do" view of this issue - I'm just making an observation.
Yeah, in the perfect world where you fart rainbows and dance with unicorns. While you might be able to do that with some symbols you can't realistically with ones like the Nazi SS symbol, at the very least not while people still have the memory of what they perpetrated.
