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Advice from senior officers: Can I make it to sanctuary at 18 years based on the following...

jagM3

Member
I would like to get the opinion of you guys, particularly atmahan and bubblehead. Upon further research, I found that it is possible to actually decline a promotion without negative consequences. As I read the below NAVADMIN and regulations, as long as SECNAV (and PERS-83/PERS-806 in particular) is authorizing officers to decline promotions, I can theoretically decline promotion to O3, remain an O2 for up to 3 additional years, and then accept promotion to O3 with my new date of rank will be effective on the date I accept it. This would essentially allow me to buy an extra 1 or 2 year cushion so that I would not get my first look at O4 until year 18 or 19 as opposed to year 16 or 17 as it stands right now. Does anyone have experience with this? What are your thoughts?

The NAVADMIN states:

"2. If a selected officer does not decline in writing prior to the projected
date of rank (noted above in paragraph 1), that officer is considered to have
accepted the promotion on the date indicated. An officer who chooses to
decline promotion must submit the declination in writing to COMNAVPERSCOM
(PERS-806) within 30 days of the release of this NAVADMIN.

3. The commanding officer (CO), the Secretary of the Navy, or his designee,
has the authority to delay projected promotions. Upon the exercise of a
delay, the officer shall be notified in writing before the effective date of
the promotion, and not be tendered the promoting appointment. The delay
authority will immediately forward the notification of delay with supporting
documentation to COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-83), copy to COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-806)."

Then, through additional research, I found this:

"10 U.S. Code § 14312 - Delay of promotion: voluntary
(a)Authority for Voluntary Delays.—
(1)The Secretary of the military department concerned may, by regulation, permit delays of a promotion of an officer who is recommended for promotion by a mandatory selection board convened under section 14101(a) or a special selection board convened under section 14502 of this title at the request of the officer concerned. Such delays, in the case of any promotion, may extend for any period not to exceed three years from the date on which the officer would otherwise be promoted.
(2)Regulations under this section shall provide that—
(A)a request for such a delay of promotion must be submitted by the officerconcerned before the delay may be approved; and
(B)denial of such a request shall not be considered to be a failure of selection for promotion unless the officer declines to accept a promotion under circumstances set forth in subsection (c).
(b)Effect of Approval of Request.—
If a request for delay of a promotion under subsection (a) is approved, the officer’s name shall remain on the promotion list during the authorized period of delay (unless removed under any other provision of law). Upon the end of the period of the authorized delay, or at any time during such period, the officer may accept the promotion, which shall be effective on the date of acceptance. Such an acceptance of a promotion shall be made in accordance with regulations prescribed under this section.
(c)Effect of Declining a Promotion.—An officer’s name shall be removed from the promotion list and, if the officer is serving in a grade below colonel or, in the case of the Navy, captain, the officer shall be considered to have failed of selection for promotion if any of the following applies:
(1)The Secretary concerned has not authorized voluntary delays of promotion under subsection (a) to the grade concerned and the officer declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade.
(2)The Secretary concerned has authorized voluntary delays of promotion under subsection (a), but has denied the request of the officer for a delay of promotion and the officer then declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade.
(3)The Secretary concerned has approved the request of an officer for a delay of promotion and, upon the end of the period of delay authorized in accordance with regulations prescribed under subsection (a), the officer then declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade."
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I would like to get the opinion of you guys, particularly atmahan and bubblehead. Upon further research, I found that it is possible to actually decline a promotion without negative consequences. As I read the below NAVADMIN and regulations, as long as SECNAV (and PERS-83/PERS-806 in particular) is authorizing officers to decline promotions, I can theoretically decline promotion to O3, remain an O2 for up to 3 additional years, and then accept promotion to O3 with my new date of rank will be effective on the date I accept it. This would essentially allow me to buy an extra 1 or 2 year cushion so that I would not get my first look at O4 until year 18 or 19 as opposed to year 16 or 17 as it stands right now. Does anyone have experience with this? What are your thoughts?

The NAVADMIN states:

"2. If a selected officer does not decline in writing prior to the projected
date of rank (noted above in paragraph 1), that officer is considered to have
accepted the promotion on the date indicated. An officer who chooses to
decline promotion must submit the declination in writing to COMNAVPERSCOM
(PERS-806) within 30 days of the release of this NAVADMIN.

3. The commanding officer (CO), the Secretary of the Navy, or his designee,
has the authority to delay projected promotions. Upon the exercise of a
delay, the officer shall be notified in writing before the effective date of
the promotion, and not be tendered the promoting appointment. The delay
authority will immediately forward the notification of delay with supporting
documentation to COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-83), copy to COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-806)."

Then, through additional research, I found this:

"10 U.S. Code § 14312 - Delay of promotion: voluntary
(a)Authority for Voluntary Delays.—
(1)The Secretary of the military department concerned may, by regulation, permit delays of a promotion of an officer who is recommended for promotion by a mandatory selection board convened under section 14101(a) or a special selection board convened under section 14502 of this title at the request of the officer concerned. Such delays, in the case of any promotion, may extend for any period not to exceed three years from the date on which the officer would otherwise be promoted.
(2)Regulations under this section shall provide that—
(A)a request for such a delay of promotion must be submitted by the officerconcerned before the delay may be approved; and
(B)denial of such a request shall not be considered to be a failure of selection for promotion unless the officer declines to accept a promotion under circumstances set forth in subsection (c).
(b)Effect of Approval of Request.—
If a request for delay of a promotion under subsection (a) is approved, the officer’s name shall remain on the promotion list during the authorized period of delay (unless removed under any other provision of law). Upon the end of the period of the authorized delay, or at any time during such period, the officer may accept the promotion, which shall be effective on the date of acceptance. Such an acceptance of a promotion shall be made in accordance with regulations prescribed under this section.
(c)Effect of Declining a Promotion.—An officer’s name shall be removed from the promotion list and, if the officer is serving in a grade below colonel or, in the case of the Navy, captain, the officer shall be considered to have failed of selection for promotion if any of the following applies:
(1)The Secretary concerned has not authorized voluntary delays of promotion under subsection (a) to the grade concerned and the officer declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade.
(2)The Secretary concerned has authorized voluntary delays of promotion under subsection (a), but has denied the request of the officer for a delay of promotion and the officer then declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade.
(3)The Secretary concerned has approved the request of an officer for a delay of promotion and, upon the end of the period of delay authorized in accordance with regulations prescribed under subsection (a), the officer then declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade."
 

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nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I would like to get the opinion of you guys, particularly atmahan and bubblehead. Upon further research, I found that it is possible to actually decline a promotion without negative consequences. As I read the below NAVADMIN and regulations, as long as SECNAV (and PERS-83/PERS-806 in particular) is authorizing officers to decline promotions, I can theoretically decline promotion to O3, remain an O2 for up to 3 additional years, and then accept promotion to O3 with my new date of rank will be effective on the date I accept it. This would essentially allow me to buy an extra 1 or 2 year cushion so that I would not get my first look at O4 until year 18 or 19 as opposed to year 16 or 17 as it stands right now. Does anyone have experience with this? What are your thoughts?

The NAVADMIN states:

"2. If a selected officer does not decline in writing prior to the projected
date of rank (noted above in paragraph 1), that officer is considered to have
accepted the promotion on the date indicated. An officer who chooses to
decline promotion must submit the declination in writing to COMNAVPERSCOM
(PERS-806) within 30 days of the release of this NAVADMIN.

3. The commanding officer (CO), the Secretary of the Navy, or his designee,
has the authority to delay projected promotions. Upon the exercise of a
delay, the officer shall be notified in writing before the effective date of
the promotion, and not be tendered the promoting appointment. The delay
authority will immediately forward the notification of delay with supporting
documentation to COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-83), copy to COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-806)."

Then, through additional research, I found this:

"10 U.S. Code § 14312 - Delay of promotion: voluntary
(a)Authority for Voluntary Delays.—
(1)The Secretary of the military department concerned may, by regulation, permit delays of a promotion of an officer who is recommended for promotion by a mandatory selection board convened under section 14101(a) or a special selection board convened under section 14502 of this title at the request of the officer concerned. Such delays, in the case of any promotion, may extend for any period not to exceed three years from the date on which the officer would otherwise be promoted.
(2)Regulations under this section shall provide that—
(A)a request for such a delay of promotion must be submitted by the officerconcerned before the delay may be approved; and
(B)denial of such a request shall not be considered to be a failure of selection for promotion unless the officer declines to accept a promotion under circumstances set forth in subsection (c).
(b)Effect of Approval of Request.—
If a request for delay of a promotion under subsection (a) is approved, the officer’s name shall remain on the promotion list during the authorized period of delay (unless removed under any other provision of law). Upon the end of the period of the authorized delay, or at any time during such period, the officer may accept the promotion, which shall be effective on the date of acceptance. Such an acceptance of a promotion shall be made in accordance with regulations prescribed under this section.
(c)Effect of Declining a Promotion.—An officer’s name shall be removed from the promotion list and, if the officer is serving in a grade below colonel or, in the case of the Navy, captain, the officer shall be considered to have failed of selection for promotion if any of the following applies:
(1)The Secretary concerned has not authorized voluntary delays of promotion under subsection (a) to the grade concerned and the officer declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade.
(2)The Secretary concerned has authorized voluntary delays of promotion under subsection (a), but has denied the request of the officer for a delay of promotion and the officer then declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade.
(3)The Secretary concerned has approved the request of an officer for a delay of promotion and, upon the end of the period of delay authorized in accordance with regulations prescribed under subsection (a), the officer then declines to accept an appointment to a higher grade."
No. Just no. Forget you ever even had that thought, and please reread the instruction. The instruction states that your CO may refuse to promote you after you pass a board, in the unlikely event that subsequent to that, you do something really dumb which casts your suitability in doubt. You do not have the option of doing this, and it's not a "get out of jail free" card. It's a "this person is about to be court-martialed, and we'll only promote them if they're fully acquitted" card.

Stricter NAVADMINs overrule Title 10. The NAVADMIN is basically SECNAV saying "you know that authority I have in Title 10? This is my SOP for how I'm going to use it." So declining promotion == Failure of Selection.
 

jagM3

Member
Separate question adding on from earlier, in the May 2013 version of BUPERSINST 1001.39F CH-1 dated May 2013 (revised from the 2007 version), I am not sure how to interpret this — does this mean the 10 months of service I have as a result of broken time that is continuously reflected on my APRP/ASOSH (in addition to the solid individual qualifying years) does actually count towards retirement, and more specifically, reaching sanctuary?

BUPERSINST 1001.39F CH-1 MAY 2013, paragraph 3, page 20-5, “Credit for Partial Years of Service”: A member who has a break in service that occurs during an anniversary year may be credited with a partial year of qualifying service for reserve retirement. When, as a result of a break in service, a partial year occurs, the service member must meet the minimum retirement point requirements set forth.

In the 10 months I have credited, I had 63 points for this period but did not complete the full year as I fully separated after 10 months and 10 days of that particular year. Therefore, as I read the above regulation, these do count in helping me more easily reach sanctuary offering me a slight buffer? Is this my saving grace?
 

jagM3

Member
No. Just no. Forget you ever even had that thought, and please reread the instruction. The instruction states that your CO may refuse to promote you after you pass a board, in the unlikely event that subsequent to that, you do something really dumb which casts your suitability in doubt. You do not have the option of doing this, and it's not a "get out of jail free" card. It's a "this person is about to be court-martialed, and we'll only promote them if they're fully acquitted" card.

Stricter NAVADMINs overrule Title 10. The NAVADMIN is basically SECNAV saying "you know that authority I have in Title 10? This is my SOP for how I'm going to use it." So declining promotion == Failure of Selection.
Thanks for the clarification, greatly appreciate it.
 
If you really want a definitive answer about your 10 months counting, you should call someone at PERS-911 or PERS-912.

Definitely put that voluntarily declining promotion stuff out of your head. Even if it was allowed, what a terrible idea. Your reporting senior would probably crush you for doing something like that.

You should be concentrating on doing good things, taking hard jobs, and making it the first time up.
 

jagM3

Member
If you really want a definitive answer about your 10 months counting, you should call someone at PERS-911 or PERS-912.

Definitely put that voluntarily declining promotion stuff out of your head. Even if it was allowed, what a terrible idea. Your reporting senior would probably crush you for doing something like that.

You should be concentrating on doing good things, taking hard jobs, and making it the first time up.
No. Just no. Forget you ever even had that thought, and please reread the instruction. The instruction states that your CO may refuse to promote you after you pass a board, in the unlikely event that subsequent to that, you do something really dumb which casts your suitability in doubt. You do not have the option of doing this, and it's not a "get out of jail free" card. It's a "this person is about to be court-martialed, and we'll only promote them if they're fully acquitted" card.

Stricter NAVADMINs overrule Title 10. The NAVADMIN is basically SECNAV saying "you know that authority I have in Title 10? This is my SOP for how I'm going to use it." So declining promotion == Failure of Selection.
The provisions for a CO to delay promotion of an officer for adverse matters (para 3) and the provision for an officer voluntarily declining promotion in a written letter to PERS-802 (para 2) are entirely separate matters, according to the NAVADMIN as written. I am unable to find a NAVADMIN or other policy that indicates an officer who declines promotion will result in a FOS. If there is a contradictory policy, would you mind sharing? Would be much appreciated. I plan to call PERS on Monday to clarify all of the issues I raised in this thread and will definitely report back on here what they say.

Also, it is important to know that declining promotion can be done for a variety of reasons. In the Army, it is very common for O3 company grade officers to decline promotion to O4 if they did not serve in a company commander billet as an O3 despite being selected for O4. They will decline promotion until serving as a company commander and checking that box, then promote. Why? Because promotion to O5 is next to impossible without having checked that commander commander box as an O3 regardless of getting selected for O4. Declining promotion is not a terrible idea, it is simply a career tool available to officers who find themselves in unique situations trying to navigate the DOD's bureacracy as best as they can. I am in a designator with a low selection rate to O4 where officers with mobs and bronze stars with Vs are getting 2xFOSed out. It is therefore an imperative that I explore every possible option, tool, and career resource available, especially as a naval officer where we and we alone are responsible for our own careers. When I am going up for the O4 board, I will be roughly 2 or 3 years out from hitting 20, my peers will be 12 or 13 years out. I am in my early 40s and the pension is important to my family's retirement planning and I am more than half way there -- this is the time when I need to be thinking about these things. I in no way intend to decline promotion, I'm just exploring any and all possibilities. Worst thing that happens is I learn something and can educate others in my unit. I really do appreciate the wealth of knowledge and expertise here on airwarriors, to say it is invaluable would be an understatement. Thanks guys.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Declining promotion is not a terrible idea, it is simply a career tool available to officers who find themselves in unique situations.
Yes, it IS a terrible idea. “If” I was a CO, your CO for example, and you turned down promotion, I would stop taking your career aspirations seriously. This is the Navy, not the Army or any other branch of service. Stop trying to game the system and focus instead on those things you have control over. Trust me, your CO will notice . . . . .
 
Last edited:

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Declining promotion is not a terrible idea, it is simply a career tool available to officers who find themselves in unique situations trying to navigate the DOD's bureacracy as best as they can.

When I am going up for the O4 board, I will be roughly 2 or 3 years out from hitting 20, my peers will be 12 or 13 years out.

This is part of the problem as to why more and more boards are steering away prior service candidates who have significant enlisted time.
 

atmahan

... facility for offence.
This is getting crazy!

JagM3,

To be honest, we still don’t know how many Qualifying Years you really have since you keep focusing on your TIS.

To help you, even though you are prior, I’m going to have to pull the Ensign Detailed Instructions procedure on you:

Let’s not worry about 2024 but March 2018.

1) Go to your ARPR/ASOSH.

2) Where it lists your years, count how many “1YR” there are in the “Satisfactory” column.

3) Now since right now it is March and your Anniversary Date is in February then your latest Qualifying Year may not be posted yet.

4) So, if the row for 02/??/2017-02/??/2018 says “0” instead of “1YR” then add 1 more year to your total current Qualifying Years.

5) Now if you get a Qualifying Year every year between now and February ??, 2024 then add 6 more to your total Qualifying Years.

6) In March 2024 when the 04 board convenes you will most likely have been an O3 for 3 Years and 6-11 Months and XX days, which as Bubbleheads spreadsheet shows, means that you will NOT be looked at.

7) So if you get a Qualifying Year in 02/??/2024-02/??/2025 then add 1 more to your total Qualifying Years.

8) Now, if your total is still at 16 AND you are 1st looked at in the March 2025 O-4 board THEN you run the risk of not hitting Sanctuary if yo go 2XFOS in 2026. You will be processed out in October 2026.

If that is the case, then first focus on making O-4. If you fail O-4 on your first look THEN HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!

If it is more than 16 then you have nothing to worry about.
 
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