A Good Problem to Have - .308 vs. .270 WSM

[Boomhower]

I will first tell of my desires and inventory, then go on to my question.

I have recently gotten the bug for long range shooting. I shot my buddy's Sako TRG .308 this past fall. Hammered a deer at over 500 yards and it was the easiest shot I've ever taken at a deer. What I learned from that is that the right equipment can make a hell of a lot of difference.

Now, what I need to take this to the next step is some equipment changes, training and practice, practice, practice.

I would say I'm a good shot. But, not a great one. I have every bad habit you can think of. I'm a flincher. I yank the trigger. I close my eyes when the rifle goes off. I look up after the shot. I don't seat the gun against my shoulder very well. I get lined up wrong behind the gun. You name it, I do it. I intend to get trained up on that to try to learn how to shoot, again.

Anyway, I digress. Currently, I am shooting a Savage Model 10 FLP ('L' for left handed. I'm right handed, but shoot left. More on that later.) chambered in .308. I have a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5 x 14 scope on it. It was the best scope I could afford at the time that I got it and, truth is, it's treated me pretty well. However, it is not ideal for long range stuff.

Fast-forward a few years when oil is hovering around $100/bbl; and this came in the mail the other day:


View attachment 12935

That's a Nightforce 5.5 x 22 x 50 with NP-R1 reticle. My pride and joy.

Also, I got one of these the other day after trading in a right handed Remington 700 .308 that I won at a skeet shoot:

View attachment 12936

Browning A-bolt in .270 WSM. Your options are pretty limited when you shoot lefty and the A-Bolt was one of those options.

I also have a Beretta Ultra-Light 12-gauge over/under that I bought after my first deployment for about $2,300. It's beautiful, but I hate that gun. It doesn't fit me right and it beats the shit out of me. 12 gauge + ultra light weight + 100 rounds of sporting clays = shoulder that looks like hamburger meat. My thinking is that the Beretta can give me some working capital for upgrades.

On to my dillema:

The Savage is a tack-driver. I love the Accu-trigger, the bull barrel, the action, everything. However, the ballistics for the .270 WSM are more favorable than even the .308. But, I've never even pulled the trigger on a .270 WSM, so I don't know what it feels like, shoots like, nothing.

Here's my thinking: Trick out that Savage with the Nightforce scope. Put a McMillan A5 stock on it, bipod, and possibly get the barrel threaded for a supressor or muzzle break. Then, put the Nikon scope on the .270 WSM and make it my general hunting rig. I might possibly ugrade the scope if I have the scratch after tricking out the Savage. If I do all this to the Savage, it will cease to be much of a hunting gun unless I can haul it in the back of a truck. It's already heavy with the barrel, but it's about to get a lot heavier.

Anybody have any experience with the .270 WSM? How does it do against whitetail, pigs, etc. Have you found it to be as flat shooting as advertised? Nasty recoil?

All thoughts are welcome.

 

[Fog]

Just remember that w/ the .270, you're pretty much limited to 140grain bullets. With the .308, you can go to 180 grain. If your hunting doesn't require the larger bullet-size the .308 affords, then the .270WSM will have flatter long-range ballistics. Thing is, IMHO, premium .308 rounds (Federal Premium & others) really make the .308 adequate for elk-size game. You can take elk w/ a .270, but precise bullet placement becomes much more critical than in larger rounds.

 

[Boomhower]

Just remember that w/ the .270, you're pretty much limited to 140grain bullets. With the .308, you can go to 180 grain. If your hunting doesn't require the larger bullet-size the .308 affords, then the .270WSM will have flatter long-range ballistics. Thing is, IMHO, premium .308 rounds (Federal Premium & others) really make the .308 adequate for elk-size game. You can take elk w/ a .270, but precise bullet placement becomes much more critical than in larger rounds.

Hmmmm. Good points all around. Perhaps a new rifle will have to be in the works when I go on an elk (or larger) hunt. Good advice. Thanks.

 

[Pugs]

Anybody have any experience with the .270 WSM? How does it do against whitetail, pigs, etc. Have you found it to be as flat shooting as advertised? Nasty recoil?

All thoughts are welcome.

You'll pay nothing for my thoughts so they are well worth the price. :icon_wink

I assume you handload and there's load data out there for 85 to 160 grain bullets in the .270 WSM but the sweet spot is 130-140 and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm a big fan of monolithic bullets and with a 140 or 150 gr Barnes TSX at 3000 fps you're armed perfectly well upon into Elk Country.

If you don't handload you're looking at a more limited (and expensive!) proposition and a much more common 130 grain bullet. That will work perfectly well on pigs and deer of all ilk but is likely a little light for elk.

I think there is some question if the WSM's will survive but if they do the .270 is one of the most practical and that combo of scope and rifle will serve you well just about any place in North America.

 

[navyavi469]

The .270 is the absolute perfect white-tail cartridge..... IF... white-tail is all you ever want to shoot with it. Its fantastic at any range against deer, has excellent trajectory and devestating terminal ballistics.

So if you're going to blow a grand on a high-precision hunting rifle, along with another thousand+ on optics, you might want to get something you can load-down for white tail, and up-load for big game and/or dangerous game.

For me, that choice was the .300 RUM (Rem Long Action UltraMag). The ballistics crap all over any .270, as well as any other .300 magnum on the market... winchester, weatherby, short-action smort-action. The ammo is uber-expensive... so what, I take maybe 5 deer a year and sight my rifle in once per season.. probably shoot less than 100 bullets annually. I can up-load to 200 grain at 3000fps for anything that walks the planet short of a blue whale, or I can download to 160gr at similar velocities for flat-shooting medium game. Remington actually makes 3 levels of catridges from the factory.

I typically dont' encounter white-tail at extreme ranges becuase its ridiculously easy to get close to them... tree stand, corn field, feeder, cut-out, whatever... my longest shot last year was at 327 yards (I always pace my kills) during a doe-day late in the season. I like to count the points, and the club I am a part of requires a miniumum spread and point-count for all bucks, depending on the time of year, and annually-changing regulations. Thus, at ranges beyond 500 yards, pretty much impossible to tell what your'e shooting at, other than it has a rack, or it doesn't, and thats at 14.5X on a 50mm Leopold VXIII.

Good luck with your decision though.

 

[Pugs]

For me, that choice was the .300 RUM (Rem Long Action UltraMag). The ballistics crap all over any .270, as well as any other .300 magnum on the market... winchester, weatherby, short-action smort-action. The ammo is uber-expensive... so what, I take maybe 5 deer a year and sight my rifle in once per season.. probably shoot less than 100 bullets annually. .

I took his post to mean the .270 WSM would be his general purpose hunting rifle and the Savage .308 was set up for long range.

If you're going to shoot game at long ranges then you're going to have to shoot a lot to do it ethically. I generally don't shoot game at long ranges and still shoot around 1500 centefire rounds a year between hunting, silhouette matches, load testing and general shooting. Those rounds are .257 Roberts, 7-08 and.308 (along with a smattering of .22 Hornet and .223 but those barely qualify as centefire) and I will say that after 50 rounds of .308 in a 10 lb Cooper at a silhouette match that I lose focus. I also shoot n the order of 2000 rounds of rimfire a year.

I've owned and shoot big bore rifles, most recently a .338 Win Mag and I do not find them fun to shoot nor do I find that with modern bullets that there is any need to go play in big bore magnum land unless you're looking at shooting big bears or hunting the dark continent.

If your idea of "downloading" is to go with a 160 grain bullets for deer you're making them much tougher than they are. I doubt I've shot a whitetail over the last 25 years with anything bigger than a 120 gr out of my 7-08 and I dropped a 225 lb Axis deer in his tracks at 175 yards last year with a 110 gr Accubond from the .257 as well as two pigs out beyond 225 yards with the same load. The VAST majority of my deer have been killed with a 100 gr bullet of one variety or another from a .243 that I have since passed down to my nephew.

If you want to shot big bores have fun with it but have a backup plan to get rid of that flinch and recall the flight deck and wear double hearing protection. :icon_tong

 

[Boomhower]

I took his post to mean the .270 WSM would be his general purpose hunting rifle and the Savage .308 was set up for long range.

This is correct. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

If you're going to shoot game at long ranges then you're going to have to shoot a lot to do it ethically.

I absolutely agree with this. I plan on starting relatively close and working my way out. But, I need a rig and lots of practice prior to going to the field. We have a spot set up where we are on a hillside with either a shooting bench in a pop-up blind or a flat spot for prone shooting. Shooters choice. I'm starting to prefer prone the more I do it. It's a total "Slob" hunt. We corn the shooting lane and then set up at our spot. They are so far away that we can call out ranges to the shooter, call out ballistics calulations and pass gin & tonics all around. It's a great afternoon 'hunting' spot. We call it Bainbridge in honor of our SEAL friends that took out the Somali's. The deer are 'pirates' trying to steal our gold (corn) and talking like a pirate is not unheard of once the booze kick in.

I've owned and shoot big bore rifles, most recently a .338 Win Mag and I do not find them fun to shoot ...

I'm with you on this one. I had dreams of getting a .338 Lapua Mag until I shot a .338 Win Mag a few weeks ago. The Win Mag was way too much gun for me and the thought that a Lapua Mag is even hotter makes my shoulder hurt thinking about it.

The VAST majority of my deer have been killed with a 100 gr bullet of one variety or another from a .243 that I have since passed down to my nephew.

I completely forgot that I own a .243 Browning BLR. I've shot plenty of deer with it, but have pretty much put it in the closet since I've been able to get other toys. I just like the security of having a little bit more fire power in case the shot placement isn't perfect. Also, I don't like to use that one in cold weather. The BLR has a hammer on it that I've had slip on me. I managed to cook off a round while I was setting up under a tree one morning when I was in college. My cousin was right next to me [That's why you always treat it like it's loaded, kids] and it absolutely scared the shit out of me.

 

[Fog]

Boom:
I have a Winchester .338 Win Mag that I had magna-ported. It reduces recoil (not muzzle blast) and adds no weight to the gun. That said, a Browning .30-06 w/ a synthetic stock & a .308 Winchester Lightweight Carbine (6 lbs, unscoped, 20" barrel) are always the 1st guns I grab for any hunt anywhere. FWIW.

 

[Pugs]

The BLR has a hammer on it that I've had slip on me. I managed to cook off a round while I was setting up under a tree one morning when I was in college. My cousin was right next to me [That's why you always treat it like it's loaded, kids] and it absolutely scared the shit out of me.

Always good to safely get those lessons hammered home. I've started hunting with a cold chamber the last couple years. I don't chamber a round until the game is sighted and I'm ready to shoot. It's worked on pigs, Axis and Whitetail and hasn't cost me an animal. Could see some places it wouldn't work but so far it's been good.