A-10's For The Marine Corps

[Herc_Dude]

What we really could look at is the AC-130 gunship. We do not have to worry about shipboard operations because there is no need.

"Fly slow, fly low, bring hell "

Stand by - the attack KC-130J is in the works. Have not found any articles online to link up here, but I do have some paper articles discussing it as well as community knowledge. A roll on-roll off package is quickly being put together ... I will pass more word as it becomes publicly available.

 

[Flash]

Stand by - the attack KC-130J is in the works. Have not found any articles online to link up here, but I do have some paper articles discussing it as well as community knowledge. A roll on-roll off package is quickly being put together ... I will pass more word as it becomes publicly available.

There was an article in Aviation Week a few weeks ago, haven't found anything on it since. Here is my post about it.

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144201&highlight=kc-130

 

[Harrier Dude]

A-10's would have been a good idea when they came out. As it is, those things are getting old and the Airforce has no replacement. Wait... maybe the 3JSF. Well, we are getting something like that, so no need.

The A-10s will be around a little while longer, but they are scheduled to be replaced by the CTOL version of the F-35. There was some talk about the USAF getting a number of STOVL variants as well, but I think that died off.

What we really could look at is the AC-130 gunship. We do not have to worry about shipboard operations because there is no need.

"Fly slow, fly low, bring hell "

AC-130s are money in a no threat environment like Iraq. Bump up the threat level much at all (significant MANPADs and AAA) and it's more like:

"Fly slow, fly low, get whacked"

There is no "perfect aircraft" for every situation.

 

[Herc_Dude]

There was an article in Aviation Week a few weeks ago, haven't found anything on it since. Here is my post about it.

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144201&highlight=kc-130

Yup, that's the one I have the paper copy of. You summed it up quite nicely and the info in the article is fairly correct. The only part that might not be 100% right is the part about the 3 packages per squadron. The word on the street at this point is that VMGR-352 will be the first squadron as the major player with it. 252 quite possibly could be taking part as well. I don't think 152 will be much of a player initially considering their AOR.

It's a pretty exciting time to be in the Herc community. I know that I always wanted to be part of an offensive platform. Like HD said there will be no perfect platform for every situation, and being able to accelerate and maneuver like a Harrier or Hornet would be nice in an ground-threat situation. However, the J mod in a light configuration (I am assuming an attack KC-130J config would be much lighter than with a fuselage tank full as well as being bagged out for AR ops) has a significant increase in performance over the legacy Hercs the AF operates in the AC config. The J mod is not your father's ... I mean, grandfather's Herc.

 

[mmx1]

Yup, that's the one I have the paper copy of. You summed it up quite nicely and the info in the article is fairly correct. The only part that might not be 100% right is the part about the 3 packages per squadron. The word on the street at this point is that VMGR-352 will be the first squadron as the major player with it. 252 quite possibly could be taking part as well. I don't think 152 will be much of a player initially considering their AOR.

It's a pretty exciting time to be in the Herc community. I know that I always wanted to be part of an offensive platform. Like HD said there will be no perfect platform for every situation, and being able to accelerate and maneuver like a Harrier or Hornet would be nice in an ground-threat situation. However, the J mod in a light configuration (I am assuming an attack KC-130J config would be much lighter than with a fuselage tank full as well as being bagged out for AR ops) has a significant increase in performance over the legacy Hercs the AF operates in the AC config. The J mod is not your father's ... I mean, grandfather's Herc.

Between this and driving through kingsville this weekend, jets just moved below C-130's on my dream sheet.

 

[raptor10]

Corps weighs gunship firepower options

 

[ChuckMK23]

Also I think the last "attack" aircraft that was not shipboard capable, the OV-10, was a mixed experience for the Marine Corps - I don't think they want to go through that again. It too decades to get rid of the Bronco - as useful and utilitarian as it was - and as brave as the crews were.

The A-10 will be around for a while in AF service. The Army seems to be insisting on it - and there is a very untrusting relationship between Army and "Fighter Jet" AF. You can bet the new AF COS being a AFSOC guy, will petition to keep the A-10 around for years.

 

[Flash]

Also I think the last "attack" aircraft that was not shipboard capable, the OV-10, was a mixed experience for the Marine Corps - I don't think they want to go through that again. It too decades to get rid of the Bronco - as useful and utilitarian as it was - and as brave as the crews were.

I thought they could and did fly it off of LHA's occasionally?

 

[ChuckMK23]

I thought they could and did fly it off of LHA's occasionally?

It was a huge contingency thing. I don't believe the VMO guys could even practice it - and the capability was limited to the best of my knowledge, to launches only. OV-10's were craned on and flew off a la "30 seconds over Tokyo" style

 

[phrogpilot73]

If the Marine Corps had A-10's the war would be over in ten minutes.

We don't need A-10's.

Pros: Lots of ordnance, lots of on-station time, big cannon, proficient at gun runs

Cons: As HD said - it's all bolted on. Old technology. Limited sensors.

Plus, it's an AF aircraft - so I don't remember if I have to give them lat/long or grid. Give it to the USMC/Navy asset - I KNOW their systems will translate whatever I give them.

Stand by - the attack KC-130J is in the works.

Why don't you guys get the DASC-A part working first? That's actually part of USMC doctrine.

AC-130s are money in a no threat environment like Iraq. Bump up the threat level much at all (significant MANPADs and AAA) and it's more like:

"Fly slow, fly low, get whacked"

There is no "perfect aircraft" for every situation.

What he said. God, I hate agreeing with a jet fag.

 

[Flash]

AC-130s are money in a no threat environment like Iraq. Bump up the threat level much at all (significant MANPADs and AAA) and it's more like:

"Fly slow, fly low, get whacked"

And they have unfortunately, in one instance in Desert Storm when one stayed on station after dawn.

 

[Zissou]

Phrog,

Obviously I don't know shit. I was just day dreaming that Marine ECAS had more bombs, more gun, and more time on station. I dont know about technology or sensors.

I have never hoped Marine Air would burn up its gas quickly, can't always say that about everyone.

No offense meant to anyone else by any means.

CAS is like pizza, even when its bad its still good.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Phrog,

Obviously I don't know shit. I was just day dreaming that Marine ECAS had more bombs, more gun, and more time on station. I dont know about technology or sensors.

I have never hoped Marine Air would burn up its gas quickly, can't always say that about everyone one.

No offense meant to anyone else by any means.

CAS is like pizza, even when its bad its still good.

Unless it's blue on blue.

Not sure what you mean by "Marine ECAS", but if you meant the A-10, then yes they have more of everything except sensors, speed, and SA (ok......that part was a joke).

The be clear, the A-10 is a fantastic aircraft for the current situation in Iraq. Nearly perfect once they get their JDAM issues ironed out. Even though a lot of its upgrades are bolted on, they still work. They have a new version in the works (A-10C?) that will supposedly integrate most of the functions. I don't know if that will give them the sensor integration of a Harrier with H4.0 or higher, but it might. I would hope so.

The problem is that we're not always going to be in Iraq. There are realistic scenarios out there where an A-10 won't be able to compete in and survive.

It was a great aircraft for its time that has adapted well. But not something to hang our future on.

Kind of like getting Favre as your new quarterback.

 

[SemperGumbi]

There were some back door deals being looked at not so long ago (~3 years ago) abtou getting Marines on the side of some A-10 assets. It never got far but there were sopme higher-ups looking to make some.....ummm....trades of sorts involving the MV-22 for some A-10s.

To those who have seen the procurement process (as I have, sadly) I know this all sounds far fetched, but it was actually a viable option that never went through. Althoguh it only was explored, never at a point where it was too close to happening.

The argument about them not being shipboard was sloughed off because some Harriers were being put on cememnt, the Prowlers don't go to boats, and the '18D guys are also on cement. I know....seems amazing that such obvious logic was being applied. This was during the big(er) push to have Marine air close to station. Ironically, now that I am flying a jet I know much less about all these things.

Neat, huh? But it never went through.

I have been told that there were times in the past wehre the AF was trying (again and again) to ax a lot of the A-10 program and the Marines were sniffing around them. Once the AF saw the interest of the Marines in the A-10 they decided maybe they should hold onto them. I can't speak very accurately to the validity of this last paragraph, though, as I didn't see any of it first hand.

 

[Single Seat]

Between this and driving through kingsville this weekend, jets just moved below C-130's on my dream sheet.

Yeah, basing your selection on 1.) where you'll live during training (12 months) and not your fleet tour (quite possibly the better part of your career) and 2.) something that MIGHT happen, have always proven to be viable criteria.