• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Career Reflections by Pickle

Meyerkord

Well-Known Member
pilot
Reflecting back on the latest tour...here is some ProDev for future DH’s (and JOPA if they care)...

I left the last squadron Nov 1st. Did 28 of the assigned 30 months. Left on a #2 EP (x2) as a 10 month MO to a #1 EP 5 month OPSO. I earned it (when you are Det OIC and the FBO tows your plane into a hangar, you will pay the piper) so no real hurt feelings. I will be a terminal O-5, assuming I made the cut last week, and be getting the phone call from the Admiral about ACSB FOSx2 a year and a week from now.

Just rolled 17 years, so will make retirement, assuming I don’t get a DUI or sleep with the help.

Things I’d do different (just speaking to DH tour):

Spend more time/effort on some of the administrative minutiae related to my specific jobs as DH...MPA bit me in the ass, I didn’t have a great handle on the programs and the whole process that QA runs, so trusted my CPO/MCO/MMCO too much, should’ve been more suspicious of “it’s all good Sir”...

Learn to hide my opinions/emotions better. I torched a few people, and pissed off a few seniors by not learning how to package my input better. I could’ve gotten the point across better, and had better effects, with a little diplomacy.

Push harder for my own career. I showed up without being qualified as an IP in MPRA (VT only) and was still scarred from the process in 2011/12 when I almost lost my wife. Had a great Skipper explain to me there was no way he could make someone the #1 without that instructor ticket...I had some notion I’d be taking a slot from a JO if I pushed for a chance to get qualified, but that was probably not entirely accurate. I was honestly just too chicken to work that hard and risk failing, publicly, again and I copped an easy out.

Take risk at the appropriate level: I was waaay too comfortable making risk decisions at my level that weren’t mine to make, right up until I had to call the Skipper and explain why we had a plane crunched into a hangar in Chile. I briefed the CDRE that a khaki supervisor would oversee every evolution involving plane towing, and let myself get suckered into complacency when 35/35 went well...I leaned too far forward and ended my career that day...only positive was I was able to shield the MX CPO on the det by taking full responsibility for the decision to not have either of us there.

Things I would do again: Walk out of work at 1600 every day I wasn’t scheduled beyond that point. I made it a habit to walk the fuck out of there and put my family first this tour, and it paid off. I saw other guys putting in hours they didn’t need to, because that’s what they saw their DH’s do, and I wasn’t playing that game.

Push back on the foolish nonsense from the PC police and the small band of whiners in my squadron. There is always a vocal troupe of several JO’s that will fight you on things. Realize they will do that to everyone, power through. There is a cancel-culture/passive-aggressive mindset endemic to a small portion of the current generation. They will run straight to the XO and Skipper, who will have your back as long as you have good intentions and can defend your actions/words.

Reach out to peers/mentors. See the discussion from 2019 regarding a chickenshit JO and CRM in this thread. It made it to the desk of my Skipper (literally printouts from AW’s on his desk) and the safety survey, on which I had 17 call outs by name. I had a very uncomfortable discussion with the boss about all of my decisions to that point, all of which boiled down to CRM and personal inter-communication. Having listened to people here, and other mentors via phone/text, I’d already worked on that deficiency in my repertoire, and kept the trust of the boss.

Finally, communicate openly and directly with your CO/XO. As a DH, you are expected to be the voice of the squadron to them, but also the voice to the squadron, from them. You cannot get atmospherics, intentions, and guidance hiding in your office or avoiding tough questions. Be willing to ask the tough questions so you have THEIR answer when you get asked those very questions from your Sailors.

I loved my tour as DH, I flew over 600 hours, crossing the 3000 hour mark, I got to make some great friends, and keep those great friends. The OPSO who beat me to the #1 did so fair and square, and neither one of us lost respect or friendship over it, because we both put the squadron and our friendship ahead of our careers. That’s not to say we never argued, but we always talked it out and had a drink.

I’m happily churning away at my staff job, and miss the squadron (I’ve brought “flight-suit Friday” to my directorate) but there is definitely a reason that tour as a DH is so short...it’s a sprint-paced marathon.

Happy to answer questions, hope this helps...

BT BT

Mods, any chance we can change the name of the threads to “Career Reflections by Pickle”?
I'm just a lowly FRS CAT I, but this was a good read. Thanks for sharing.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
Learn to hide my opinions/emotions better. I torched a few people, and pissed off a few seniors by not learning how to package my input better. I could’ve gotten the point across better, and had better effects, with a little diplomacy.
Push back on the foolish nonsense from the PC police and the small band of whiners in my squadron. There is always a vocal troupe of several JO’s that will fight you on things. Realize they will do that to everyone, power through. There is a cancel-culture/passive-aggressive mindset endemic to a small portion of the current generation. They will run straight to the XO and Skipper, who will have your back as long as you have good intentions and can defend your actions/words.
these are related
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Reflecting back on the latest tour...here is some ProDev for future DH’s (and JOPA if they care)...

I left the last squadron Nov 1st. Did 28 of the assigned 30 months. Left on a #2 EP (x2) as a 10 month MO to a #1 EP 5 month OPSO. I earned it (when you are Det OIC and the FBO tows your plane into a hangar, you will pay the piper) so no real hurt feelings. I will be a terminal O-5, assuming I made the cut last week, and be getting the phone call from the Admiral about ACSB FOSx2 a year and a week from now.

Just rolled 17 years, so will make retirement, assuming I don’t get a DUI or sleep with the help.

Things I’d do different (just speaking to DH tour):

Spend more time/effort on some of the administrative minutiae related to my specific jobs as DH...MPA bit me in the ass, I didn’t have a great handle on the programs and the whole process that QA runs, so trusted my CPO/MCO/MMCO too much, should’ve been more suspicious of “it’s all good Sir”...

Learn to hide my opinions/emotions better. I torched a few people, and pissed off a few seniors by not learning how to package my input better. I could’ve gotten the point across better, and had better effects, with a little diplomacy.

Push harder for my own career. I showed up without being qualified as an IP in MPRA (VT only) and was still scarred from the process in 2011/12 when I almost lost my wife. Had a great Skipper explain to me there was no way he could make someone the #1 without that instructor ticket...I had some notion I’d be taking a slot from a JO if I pushed for a chance to get qualified, but that was probably not entirely accurate. I was honestly just too chicken to work that hard and risk failing, publicly, again and I copped an easy out.

Take risk at the appropriate level: I was waaay too comfortable making risk decisions at my level that weren’t mine to make, right up until I had to call the Skipper and explain why we had a plane crunched into a hangar in Chile. I briefed the CDRE that a khaki supervisor would oversee every evolution involving plane towing, and let myself get suckered into complacency when 35/35 went well...I leaned too far forward and ended my career that day...only positive was I was able to shield the MX CPO on the det by taking full responsibility for the decision to not have either of us there.

Things I would do again: Walk out of work at 1600 every day I wasn’t scheduled beyond that point. I made it a habit to walk the fuck out of there and put my family first this tour, and it paid off. I saw other guys putting in hours they didn’t need to, because that’s what they saw their DH’s do, and I wasn’t playing that game.

Push back on the foolish nonsense from the PC police and the small band of whiners in my squadron. There is always a vocal troupe of several JO’s that will fight you on things. Realize they will do that to everyone, power through. There is a cancel-culture/passive-aggressive mindset endemic to a small portion of the current generation. They will run straight to the XO and Skipper, who will have your back as long as you have good intentions and can defend your actions/words.

Reach out to peers/mentors. See the discussion from 2019 regarding a chickenshit JO and CRM in this thread. It made it to the desk of my Skipper (literally printouts from AW’s on his desk) and the safety survey, on which I had 17 call outs by name. I had a very uncomfortable discussion with the boss about all of my decisions to that point, all of which boiled down to CRM and personal inter-communication. Having listened to people here, and other mentors via phone/text, I’d already worked on that deficiency in my repertoire, and kept the trust of the boss.

Finally, communicate openly and directly with your CO/XO. As a DH, you are expected to be the voice of the squadron to them, but also the voice to the squadron, from them. You cannot get atmospherics, intentions, and guidance hiding in your office or avoiding tough questions. Be willing to ask the tough questions so you have THEIR answer when you get asked those very questions from your Sailors.

I loved my tour as DH, I flew over 600 hours, crossing the 3000 hour mark, I got to make some great friends, and keep those great friends. The OPSO who beat me to the #1 did so fair and square, and neither one of us lost respect or friendship over it, because we both put the squadron and our friendship ahead of our careers. That’s not to say we never argued, but we always talked it out and had a drink.

I’m happily churning away at my staff job, and miss the squadron (I’ve brought “flight-suit Friday” to my directorate) but there is definitely a reason that tour as a DH is so short...it’s a sprint-paced marathon.

Happy to answer questions, hope this helps...

BT BT

Mods, any chance we can change the name of the threads to “Career Reflections by Pickle”?
Thanks for your raw honest reflections. It should benefit many.
 

RoarkJr.

Well-Known Member
These are awesome posts to read, thank you.
Things I would do again: Walk out of work at 1600 every day I wasn’t scheduled beyond that point. I made it a habit to walk the fuck out of there and put my family first this tour, and it paid off. I saw other guys putting in hours they didn’t need to, because that’s what they saw their DH’s do, and I wasn’t playing that game.
I understand that as a FNG I will want to show that I'm willing to work hard to get my quals, learn ground job, and just overall show that I want to be a hard working part of the team. That being said, how long before a FNG rates to start prioritizing family a little bit more by leaving at a reasonable hour when no longer scheduled?

I just talked to a 53E buddy from OCS who told me a short day is 10 hours, average is 12-14. Not as many short Fridays as the enlisted maintenance side either. I get it, comes with the territory, but how much of that is lingering vice actually getting shit done, notwithstanding upcoming inspections for ground jobs, work ups, studying to get quals etc.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I just talked to a 53E buddy from OCS who told me a short day is 10 hours, average is 12-14. Not as many short Fridays as the enlisted maintenance side either. I get it, comes with the territory, but how much of that is lingering vice actually getting shit done, notwithstanding upcoming inspections for ground jobs, work ups, studying to get quals etc.
When you have enough squadrons in a single building then it's interesting to observe the differencs. Usually there will be one that adopts a philosophy of "if we get all the work done by ___ then we can knock off early." Sometimes that means Friday at lunch, sometimes it means a certain time of the day every workday, it varies. The ones who have the philosophy that they'll get max productivity by scheduling long workdays, those organizations seem to have no trouble meeting the schedule they've set for themselves.

That's not to crap on the second kind because maintenance man hours blows up when you have to cannibalize spare parts or the equipment is simply old and well used. But somehow the first kind always seems to get the job done too.

You'll see the same thing on the waterfront with several ships in class.

I don't know how that plays out in Navy 53 land where there are really only two~ish squadrons.
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
these are related
Indeed. There is a balance between the two. Thus the reason they were in separate points. One can’t be a raging asshole, but one can’t be a simpering invertebrate...I saw both sides from leaders throughout, the ones scared of a mention in the CO’s suggestion box or a culture survey, and those who took pride in them. I never got it all the way right, as I leaned more on the “raging asshole” side of the spectrum, but worked toward the middle throughout.

The Navy is still led and run by the A-Types, and there is inherent value in a person who can be direct without using invective, but I would argue if someone’s failing was hurting feelings while being effective, vice the nice guy who can’t get results, I’ll take the one who gets results.

I’ll never be the perfect leader, but can keep trying to improve...
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
These are awesome posts to read, thank you.

I understand that as a FNG I will want to show that I'm willing to work hard to get my quals, learn ground job, and just overall show that I want to be a hard working part of the team. That being said, how long before a FNG rates to start prioritizing family a little bit more by leaving at a reasonable hour when no longer scheduled?

I just talked to a 53E buddy from OCS who told me a short day is 10 hours, average is 12-14. Not as many short Fridays as the enlisted maintenance side either. I get it, comes with the territory, but how much of that is lingering vice actually getting shit done, notwithstanding upcoming inspections for ground jobs, work ups, studying to get quals etc.
This is highly dependent on community, where the squadron is in the work-up cycle, and where the individual is in their time in the squadron. In other words, there's no black and white answer. In my own experience, prolonged periods of long hours were rare unless you were getting ready for a det, or deployment. Some jobs take more work, but you won't have those jobs the entire time you're in that squadron. Sometimes you're just the coffee mess officer, because you're supposed to be focusing on getting good in the airplane.

Squadron life is a marathon with sprints along the way. Understanding that will help the individual (and leadership) find the right balance between readiness and burning people out.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
These are awesome posts to read, thank you.

I understand that as a FNG I will want to show that I'm willing to work hard to get my quals, learn ground job, and just overall show that I want to be a hard working part of the team. That being said, how long before a FNG rates to start prioritizing family a little bit more by leaving at a reasonable hour when no longer scheduled?

I just talked to a 53E buddy from OCS who told me a short day is 10 hours, average is 12-14. Not as many short Fridays as the enlisted maintenance side either. I get it, comes with the territory, but how much of that is lingering vice actually getting shit done, notwithstanding upcoming inspections for ground jobs, work ups, studying to get quals etc.

You have to feel that out along the way. There's no standard answer, and the definition of what the standard is changes along the way through the cycle of squadron ups and downs. The key is to avoid feeling like you have to stay at work just because everyone else is, while also not feeling entitled to pull chocks just because you worked X number of hours today/this week. Work to a standard, and ask for help early on with understanding how to prioritize tasks, e.g. working smart, not just working hard. You'll change jobs a lot, so it's expected that you'll have questions. Watching people react to others' work ethic should tell you a lot about where the lateral limits are. There are workaholics and lazy dogs (relatively speaking) in every squadron.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
You have to feel that out along the way. There's no standard answer, and the definition of what the standard is changes along the way through the cycle of squadron ups and downs. The key is to avoid feeling like you have to stay at work just because everyone else is, while also not feeling entitled to pull chocks just because you worked X number of hours today/this week. Work to a standard, and ask for help early on with understanding how to prioritize tasks, e.g. working smart, not just working hard. You'll change jobs a lot, so it's expected that you'll have questions. Watching people react to others' work ethic should tell you a lot about where the lateral limits are. There are workaholics and lazy dogs (relatively speaking) in every squadron.
To pile on, the JOs that earned my respect the fastest were the ones that got shit done, usually without being asked, and had a positive attitude about their portion of the big picture. When I see folks like that pitch out early when they're able, to go live their lives, that makes me happy because I know they've figured out how to manage that balance.
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
Pickle, first, thanks for sharing some raw thoughts. That can't be easy.

Just wondering, was the DH you left with who got the #1 also a non-IP or were they a WWS/VP30 type? It might be my personal perception, but I feel like CNATRA types are second class citizens when returning to the fleet. Your experience WRT getting the IP qual mirrors what I saw with tactical quals in HSC. "It's a heavy investment in hours to train you that we might not get back" or "We don't want to short the JOs to get you qualled" and you're playing catch-up against someone who doesn't have that baggage.
 
Top