Helo PPL

[surfnturf88]

As a former helo flight student I was wondering if it's actually worth it to trying to earn a ppl with the time and training I have. I was able to get all the way through RIs before being let go. Part of me really wants to do it but since I didn't finish I'm assuming I'll have to do the extra solo time and xc time that the FAA requires, and I know helo time isn't cheap.

 

[Pags]

depends on what priorities you have for your time and money and your intent with the ppl.

 

[Uncle Fester]

"Worth it" depends on your goal. If you're looking at flying jobs outside, they tend to care more about hours than quals. Getting enough hours to be competitive on your own dime would be a pricey proposition.

 

[surfnturf88]

depends on what priorities you have for your time and money and your intent with the ppl.

Realistically just flying for fun. I don't expect to make a career out of it. Just feel like these hours and training I've received is going to waste.

 

[wlawr005]

Bro, unless you winged your time means very little. Even after winging, with 300+ hours, my time means little. The key is to find a CFI who's willing to sign you off. Search around and good luck.

 

[jtmedli]

Bro, unless you winged your time means very little. Even after winging, with 300+ hours, my time means little. The key is to find a CFI who's willing to sign you off. Search around and good luck.

Just FTR, any CFI should be willing to sign off quals for military aviators. I've heard of guys having issues getting their military equivalency ratings because the FSDO wouldn't sign them off and it's crap. It's written right there in the FAR/AIM for all to see.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I'm not a lawyer, but I thought that was just if you have wings.

(a) General. Except for a person who has been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency or because of a disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, a U.S. military pilot or former military pilot who meets the requirements of this section may apply, on the basis of his or her military pilot qualifications, for:

Blah blah blah

 

[surfnturf88]

Just FTR, any CFI should be willing to sign off quals for military aviators. I've heard of guys having issues getting their military equivalency ratings because the FSDO wouldn't sign them off and it's crap. It's written right there in the FAR/AIM for all to see.

Yeah but what if you didn't wing, and doesn't it have to be a DPE to issue a ppl not just a CFI?

 

[Gatordev]

I'm not a lawyer, but I thought that was just if you have wings.

(a) General. Except for a person who has been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency or because of a disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, a U.S. military pilot or former military pilot who meets the requirements of this section may apply, on the basis of his or her military pilot qualifications, for:

Blah blah blah

This. I'm too lazy to go look up the Part 61 verbage, but I'm pretty sure it states you have to have completed a UPT syllabus. Unless your time in the military was under a rated CFI/I, the time doesn't really count for much other than experience. I had over 1,000 hours in a Complex/High Performance aircraft, and because I was an idiot and didn't have a bud who was a CFI sign me off when we flew during a BITS, I never got the endorsement...and other CFIs didn't want to sign it off, either (and understandably so).

 

[wlawr005]

If you didn't wing...you're gonna have to find a CFI who's willing to pull some strings and cut some corners brotha. They're not that hard to find.

 

[surfnturf88]

If you didn't wing...you're gonna have to find a CFI who's willing to pull some strings and cut some corners brotha. They're not that hard to find.

I got to ask some more CFIs I guess. If I can even get a ASEL from primary and do an add on later for helos it would definitely help moneywise.

 

[jtmedli]

This. I'm too lazy to go look up the Part 61 verbage, but I'm pretty sure it states you have to have completed a UPT syllabus. Unless your time in the military was under a rated CFI/I, the time doesn't really count for much other than experience. I had over 1,000 hours in a Complex/High Performance aircraft, and because I was an idiot and didn't have a bud who was a CFI sign me off when we flew during a BITS, I never got the endorsement...and other CFIs didn't want to sign it off, either (and understandably so).

You may want to look into this again. The FAR/AIM changed a couple years ago as it relates to military equivalency. The verbology that said "signoff in logbook within previous 12 months" (in order to get the endorsement) to just say "signoff in logbook". So the word of the law is now that you just have to have the signoff in your logbook for T-6s or T-34s to get the ratings. A lot of FSDOs/Examiners confuse a rating with currency which isn't correct.

 

[Gatordev]

You may want to look into this again. The FAR/AIM changed a couple years ago as it relates to military equivalency. The verbology that said "signoff in logbook within previous 12 months" (in order to get the endorsement) to just say "signoff in logbook". So the word of the law is now that you just have to have the signoff in your logbook for T-6s or T-34s to get the ratings. A lot of FSDOs/Examiners confuse a rating with currency which isn't correct.

Fair enough, but the contention earlier was "what is a sign off?" Was that ever resolved? The only sign off you get in Primary is SFS (I can't remember if that actually makes it in your log book). Now if a FSDO takes a I4290 (which is NOT an instrument check in Primary), more power to you, but even that isn't a "sign off" in your logbook, just an event number that doesn't say if you've completed it or not.

For HTs, same issue. You get your Inst X signed off, and if the OP made it past there, then he may have some room to negotiate. My point is that you still have to finish something AND have it make it into something other than your training jacket, which historically, didn't really happen until your instrument check.

 

[jtmedli]

Fair enough, but the contention earlier was "what is a sign off?" Was that ever resolved? The only sign off you get in Primary is SFS (I can't remember if that actually makes it in your log book). Now if a FSDO takes a I4290 (which is NOT an instrument check in Primary), more power to you, but even that isn't a "sign off" in your logbook, just an event number that doesn't say if you've completed it or not.

For HTs, same issue. You get your Inst X signed off, and if the OP made it past there, then he may have some room to negotiate. My point is that you still have to finish something AND have it make it into something other than your training jacket, which historically, didn't really happen until your instrument check.

FWIW, the examiner that signed me off said to keep all of those grade sheets because they SHOULD say "INST X Complete" on them and then your INST X paperwork is other proof that you have been signed off as an instrument capable pilot in the military. The SFS should in the front of your logbook where your H2P and HAC stuff is stamped which is what the examiner that I talked to went off of. I believe the understanding/assumption is that once you are a winged aviator then it is understood that you completed both primary and advanced consisting of FW and RW VFR and IFR syllabi which is where the signoffs on your ratings come from. Also, he was perfectly happy seeing the T-6B stamp in front of my logbook and signing off my FW and RW commercial and instrument based off of that. The complex/high-performance thing is a fight i'll have if I ever go back to the VTs. That's probably clear as mud but I hope it helps.

 

[ChuckM]

FWIW, you are potentially screwing any CFI/I that endorses you without actually flying with you. Should you ever get in an accident the first thing the FAA will pry into are your logbooks and training record. If there are ANY discrepancies, they will not offer you a remediation path, they will simply revoke all your liscenses.

Afterwards they will find the CFI and DPE that endorsed and certified you and probably strip them of thier respective privlages as well depending on the severity of your mishap.

As none of your military instructors (IPs) were CFIs (or at a minimum they were not acting in that capacity as it related to your traning) none of your military hours count as under instruction in the eyes of the FAA. Not to sound too dick here, but the privlages that the FAA are extending to military pilots are meant to reward completion of a military syllabus (wings). Anything short of completing that syllabus is inadequate to get credit for a MIL COMP commercial set of ratings.

2 points here: 1.) cutting corners with the FAA has pretty crap consequences for everyone involved. 2.) the MIL COMP test/ratings are a privlege reserved for those that made it across the finish line. Anyting short of that and you dont qualify. Its only for rated military aviators.

IMHO you only can count your IFS time towards any PPL you seek. Thats a 25 hour leg up I suppose.