Navy HR Contacting IRR Folks...

[Flash]

That's my whole point, he wasn't in charge of anything. He was just another dude with a rifle, albeit a better paid one. The Navy is so concerned about cutting costs everywhere else that four guys can't get a rental car on a cross country and have to share hotel rooms yet we're willing to pay an O-4 vice an E-5 to check IDs?... Is this an isolated case? I sure hope so, but it seems kind of par for the course. Is this an isolated case? I sure hope so, but it seems kind of par for the course.

Have been around for a few years and known hundreds of folks mobilized I don't know a single officer at any level who was only guarding a gate along with some soldiers and Seabees. His case is either; 1 - A very rare instance of a MOB or, 2 - A lot more to his story. Not knowing anything more but with quite a bit of first and second-hand knowledge of MOB's and IA's I would hazard a guess it is number 2.

Was there nothing he could have done in-country to take advantage of his 14+ years of aviation experience? Don't think that this hasn't poisoned the well a little when our buddy gets mob'ed to go "support the war" because Big Navy Reserve "needs" him, and then he does nothing but guard a bunch of operators for almost a year.

This is nothing new, it has been going on for over 10 years so color me cynical that only when it starts hitting VR's and SAU's is it a problem.

Again, welcome to the world of IA's and mobilizations. I was stuck with over a score of Navy folks in the sandbox, active and reserve, who almost to a sailor were doing things far outside their world of expertise or background. The same went for the soldiers and airmen we were stuck with as well. The Navy long ago made a decision at the highest levels to support the wars with personnel in a way we hadn't before and our service out there was a result of that. That is a related but separate debate.

I think this goes back to the reason why the SAUs and VR squadrons are drying up. The Navy NEEDS 1315s (or 1375 in some VTs) to fulfill roles that the Navy has spent a lot of time, effort, and money training them for. Lots of guys have volunteered for mobs and the head sheds, from my experience, have tried their hardest to ensure that guys are actually volunteering. I think if guys were getting mob'ed into useful, critical positions then there wouldn't be such an uproar, but from purely anecdotal evidence, I haven't seen that. However, I'm just a know-nothing LT.

VR's and SAU's aren't the only place that need trained folks, you just described plenty of other SELRES who aren't in those units.

This much I do know: there aren't a lot of my buddies who are actively pursuing career path jobs in hopes of going back to the fleet. If they haven't been shown the door already, the resignations letters are drafted waiting for the second they can press send. Not a lot of guys planning on taking the bonus, and almost everyone I know has taken some leave to get their ATP. Including leadership. I think a vast majority of guys would love to go SELRES and continue flying, but the writing is on the wall that when mobs come, dudes are jumping ship. And sure, they can have an emergency hiring board and delay the problem another 2 years or so…but it's a band-aid at best.

To be frank that is fine then, if folks aren't willing to take the 'bad' with the 'good' then they shouldn't be volunteering. If the VR's and SAU's suffer as a result then maybe the Navy ought to rethink it's flawed IA/MOB process but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Pags]

This whole thread is a nice reinforcement to my decision to not go SELRES.

 

[Sam I am]

Just got a txt from a buddy...10 Sel-Res exited (IRR or other...retirement?) in one squadron in last 60 days...Ouch.

 

[SynixMan]

Ignorant AD question, but what are we talking about here? Are the MOBs to the 'Stan to live in a no shit tent/trailer still a "thing" despite the drawdown? Or are we talking about CAOC/Bahrain/Tampastan/other staff-y places? Trying to cage myself here.

 

[Flash]

Ignorant AD question, but what are we talking about here? Are the MOBs to the 'Stan to live in a no shit tent/trailer still a "thing" despite the drawdown? Or are we talking about CAOC/Bahrain/Tampastan/other staff-y places? Trying to cage myself here.

From my first and second-hand experience the vast majority of MOB's for SELRES are to 'staff-y' jobs but a variety of places to include the Bahrain and the rest of the Gulf, Djibouti and Afghanistan but with a significant minority to places in CONUS like Norfolk along with a few more to Europe and other nicer spots. I would imagine there are still a few folks that get tagged and live a little more grunt-like but I haven't heard of one in a while. Living in a trailer has been relatively standard in the places where we don't have more 'permanent' roots like Bahrain but it is hardly roughing it like a grunt.

The official word that was passed about a year or so ago was that they were transitioning as much of the IA's to the reserves as they could. So while the reserves have seen a reduction in the amount of MOB's it may not be in line with the Navy's overall reduction of IA's since we are supposedly taking a greater share of them. Some of the more recent complaints are from hardware units that until a short time ago were exempt from MOB's.

One thing you learn quickly in the reserves though is you can control your destiny to some degree when it comes to MOB's by volunteering for certain ones. There are at least three folks in my unit who are MOB'd right now or have just gotten off of one and all were in the Norfolk area, all of them volunteered and get the full credit for a MOB. That is compared to the one volunteer in Djibouti right now and one more who just got tagged for a involuntary MOB to Afghanistan later this year.

If you have any more specific questions please feel free to PM me.

Just got a txt from a buddy...10 Sel-Res exited (IRR or other...retirement?) in one squadron in last 60 days...Ouch.

Fair winds and following seas, they have done their time and it is their choice.

 

[Gatordev]

Ignorant AD question, but what are we talking about here? Are the MOBs to the 'Stan to live in a no shit tent/trailer still a "thing" despite the drawdown? Or are we talking about CAOC/Bahrain/Tampastan/other staff-y places? Trying to cage myself here.

For a while (5 deployments, I believe), MOBs were also used for Firescout, but that (for the moment) is coming to a close.

There's some other domestic jobs that Sailors can sign up for that may not technically be a "MOB," but some other recall to active duty for a period of time. For example, they've been using SELRES to populate the A and C schools with instructors so they could send the AC instructors back to an AC sea-going billet. These were for specific ratings that were undermanned at the sea rotation side.

 

[SynixMan]

Thanks Gents. I get the idea folks being upset about MOBs and that taking them away from their lives, especially if they had been protected before (from what I'm reading) and are now fodder. My lens is more of the Active Duty one, wherein I'd gladly take the year to Bahrain vice boat orders.

 

[Randy Daytona]

I'm talking macro not micro. The SELRES CO makes policy within the SAU (or squadron), but not at the higher, business rules level (ie, staff...RCC, CNRFC, CNAFR, etc). I'd argue that the majority of the people in those roles making Big Reserve policy are FTS or career SELTARs and not your conventional 13x5.

The CNATRA SelRes RCC's were large and in charge. The FTS OIC's do a lot of work, but the RCC's were SelRes and set policy. The CNAFR's I met with personally at conferences and NRAMS were SelRes as well. I can't speak for the other communities. Perhaps there is a difference based upon where you are.

I am not sure if FTS fully appreciates that the Navy Reserves comes in - at best - third on a SelRes's list of priorities starting with family and then civilian career.

 

[nittany03]

I'm talking macro not micro. The SELRES CO makes policy within the SAU (or squadron), but not at the higher, business rules level (ie, staff...RCC, CNRFC, CNAFR, etc). I'd argue that the majority of the people in those roles making Big Reserve policy are FTS or career SELTARs and not your conventional 13x5.

Yet the Chief of Navy Reserve is a SELRES on recall orders.

WRT the MOB thing, I recently finished going through NRUM, and two MOB-related takeaways were that the RC/AC MOB/IA ratio is currently sitting at approximately 2:1, and that PERS-9 is very interested in talking to people who get bait-and-switched by being MOBed for one thing and doing another. Apparently this is getting very high-level scrutiny, as is the "billet being pulled late in the game" game.

 

[e6bflyer]

Have been around for a few years and known hundreds of folks mobilized I don't know a single officer at any level who was only guarding a gate along with some soldiers and Seabees. His case is either; 1 - A very rare instance of a MOB or, 2 - A lot more to his story. Not knowing anything more but with quite a bit of first and second-hand knowledge of MOB's and IA's I would hazard a guess it is number 2.



This is nothing new, it has been going on for over 10 years so color me cynical that only when it starts hitting VR's and SAU's is it a problem.

Again, welcome to the world of IA's and mobilizations. I was stuck with over a score of Navy folks in the sandbox, active and reserve, who almost to a sailor were doing things far outside their world of expertise or background. The same went for the soldiers and airmen we were stuck with as well. The Navy long ago made a decision at the highest levels to support the wars with personnel in a way we hadn't before and our service out there was a result of that. That is a related but separate debate.



VR's and SAU's aren't the only place that need trained folks, you just described plenty of other SELRES who aren't in those units.



To be frank that is fine then, if folks aren't willing to take the 'bad' with the 'good' then they shouldn't be volunteering. If the VR's and SAU's suffer as a result then maybe the Navy ought to rethink it's flawed IA/MOB process but I won't hold my breath.

Flash,
I am getting a sense of anger/jealousy towards CNATRA/VR SELRES that maybe haven't been "feeling the pain" like the rest if their reserve brethren. Please correct me if I am wrong. I think you fail to realize the level of training, commitment, and true need that those SELRES billets fill. When I was an IP in the VTs, the Selres guys were pulling the sled three days out of the week and we were barely meeting production. Those (and any hardware unit) are not the guys we need to be sending away to rot in a trailer doing quad slides.

I get it. Active duty were being royally screwed by IAs so Navy leadership made the decision to screw someone else with it.

My point is that 5 years ago ain't the reality today and, especially in the officer community, people are a lot less prone to put up with the bullshit IA than they were then. I have a bud who is "fully committed" to his CNATRA VT job and I suspect he will be a SAU CO very soon. He took a year in Djibuti because he was all in. A LT or O-4 who is looking at continuing their prosperous career and family life is going to give big Navy the finger and move on.

Hopefully the Navy will get it once they lose enough people. It's ok to say "no" every now and then. I think, as a service branch, we have somehow forgotten that.

 

[Gatordev]

Yet the Chief of Navy Reserve is a SELRES on recall orders.

VADM Braun? I thought she was FTS? Her bio reads like a FTS career (detailer, hopping around several VR squadrons, etc). CNAFR is on Recall, though. I believe that's been a SELRES (recall) billet for some time.

Either way, that's why I included SELTARs. While the designator may be different, they've historically operated in FTS-like roles.

The CNATRA SelRes RCC's were large and in charge. The FTS OIC's do a lot of work, but the RCC's were SelRes and set policy. The CNAFR's I met with personally at conferences and NRAMS were SelRes as well. I can't speak for the other communities. Perhaps there is a difference based upon where you are.

Interesting. It could very well be who's paying the bill. On the gray side, I've had to deal either directly with CNAFR/MSW (which basically means FTS except for the ACTUAL) and the NOSC. Obviously the NOSC gets its marching orders from RCC. I'm very proud to not have had any real dealings with RCC. <shudder>

I am not sure if FTS fully appreciates that the Navy Reserves comes in - at best - third on a SelRes's list of priorities starting with family and then civilian career.

I think the FTS appreciate it, they just get annoyed over time when the SELRES shows up and expects everything to be set up with little help from the SELRES. At least in my experience.

A SELRES CO once said something to the effect of "you know you're being successful in balancing your job, your family, and the Reserves if all three are a little unhappy."

 

[m5h9]

No doubt, you do get a two year deferment.

You can quit. None of this is a secret. You just need to quit BEFORE your name (or your squadron) gets tagged. For guys "just coming off AD," they have 2 years to see the train coming and make the decision.

To go back a few posts... I was in the middle of a 2 year deferment when I got the MOB call. I was in the middle of explaining the deferment rule when I realized I was talking to the NOSC CO. I must have not registered that due to the initial shock. Anyway, he said he would look into it. It took 2-3 months to cancel the orders for a 25DEC report date, and I had to explain repeatedly to my fiance this was business as usual and it would "be OK." It turns out I didn't have the right IMS code in NSIPS to prevent the ping. Admittedly, I was bitter about all this for a while, but the rules were followed in the end. I just can't help but think of the alternatives if I hadn't have known the rules. So, suffice to say I was aware of the impending train, and this hastened my decision prior to the full two year mark.

 

[Randy Daytona]

VADM Braun? I thought she was FTS? Her bio reads like a FTS career (detailer, hopping around several VR squadrons, etc). CNAFR is on Recall, though. I believe that's been a SELRES (recall) billet for some time.

Either way, that's why I included SELTARs. While the designator may be different, they've historically operated in FTS-like roles.

Interesting. It could very well be who's paying the bill. On the gray side, I've had to deal either directly with CNAFR/MSW (which basically means FTS except for the ACTUAL) and the NOSC. Obviously the NOSC gets its marching orders from RCC. I'm very proud to not have had any real dealings with RCC. <shudder>

I think the FTS appreciate it, they just get annoyed over time when the SELRES shows up and expects everything to be set up with little help from the SELRES. At least in my experience.


A SELRES CO once said something to the effect of "you know you're being successful in balancing your job, your family, and the Reserves if all three are a little unhappy."

I thought VADM Braun was a FEDEX pilot? The last two CNAFR's (Rear Admiral's Sadler and Leavitt) were Delta and United if I remember correctly.

We were very lucky at TW-5. Our RCC's were motivated, big-picture guys. The FTS OIC's were extremely competent. Active duty ops liked the flexibility that multi-cat, multi-stan reservists allowed for ease of scheduling. Finally, the attitude of the active-duty leadership - so important for a SAU to work - was not only "tell the SAU go full throttle" but also "y'all have a lot of experience - any ideas?" The result of this was that even though a SelRes was projected to fly 25% the amount of an active duty guy, we had guys enthusiastically flying 300, 400, 500 hours a year in addition to their full time job. Have you ever seen a SelRes (in the training command) in a bad mood?

One of the funniest things was when they made us wear Navy PT uniforms for the PRT. Formerly, it looked like an episode of M*A*S*H with football jerseys, bowling shirts, Hawaiian flower prints. Lot of wailing and knashing of teeth over that.

 

[Flash]

Flash,
I am getting a sense of anger/jealousy towards CNATRA/VR SELRES that maybe haven't been "feeling the pain" like the rest if their reserve brethren. Please correct me if I am wrong.

More exasperation and annoyance at the sense of entitlement. It doesn't help some of them have flaunted their special status but when the time comes to pay their dues they do nothing but whine, complain and quit after getting their orders but before deploying. Sorry if my sympathy meter is near zero for the vast majority of them. I have done my part and gladly stuck with the reserves.

I think you fail to realize the level of training, commitment, and true need that those SELRES billets fill. When I was an IP in the VTs, the Selres guys were pulling the sled three days out of the week and we were barely meeting production.

No, I have a pretty good idea what the level of the training and commitment is for the hardware units. I know quite a few guys who have done the VR and SAU thing and know how much they worked. I also knew quite a few folks in the Prowler unit and we have quite a few guys from the VAW And VR squadrons in my current unit along with a few from the VT SAUs and one from a VFC so overall I have a pretty good knowledges of what the commitment is.

Those (and any hardware unit) are not the guys we need to be sending away to rot in a trailer doing quad slides.

The same can be said for many other more 'normal' reservists and some of their real jobs, many of which support the war effort in even more direct and vital ways than someone in a VR or SAU. So color me cynical when I see the myopic complaints from a VR guy saying how the Navy is screwing them by making him do something other than only what he or she wants to do.

I get it. Active duty were being royally screwed by IAs so Navy leadership made the decision to screw someone else with it.

The reserves have been shouldering the load just as long as the active duty, the only differences now is that there are less IA's, the reserves is doing a higher percentage of them (those still less than what we were doing just a few years ago) and hardware unit guys now have to do them.

My point is that 5 years ago ain't the reality today and, especially in the officer community, people are a lot less prone to put up with the bullshit IA than they were then.

The biggest difference recently is that the hardware unit personnel are now being tagged for MOB's, and some of those folks just don't want to do an IA period. Coupled with the airlines hiring again, the choice to leave is a lot easier.

...A LT or O-4 who is looking at continuing their prosperous career and family life is going to give big Navy the finger and move on.

Hopefully the Navy will get it once they lose enough people. It's ok to say "no" every now and then. I think, as a service branch, we have somehow forgotten that.

It certainly is okay to say no and for folks to leave after having done their duty to this country. The Navy could certainly do better with the whole IA business but that is a larger Navy issue, related but seperate from the recent complaints. But call me cynical again that this is all of a sudden a big issue only after the hardware units folks are tagged with it after it has been going on for more than 10 years.

 

[RHINOWSO]

WRT a VADM being a "selres", does it really matter since they've likely gotten into sanctuary already, so they are more AD than anything else...