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Correspondence Course Review

USNJahawk

New Member
pilot
Thanks for all the info in this thread so far!

Wow! Talk about feeling like Big Brother is watching! I'm starting to get paranoid.

vxc961 said:

"I called RESFOR and was told (I'm paraphrasing) "we don't want to pay retirement to O-5's who get points by learning about chaplain's history". "

That sounds like me! That's exactly what I did during my last Anniversary Year! (although I am an O-4).

also,

USNJahawk said:

"Internal "policy" has been they don't want people doing more than 3 years in a row I guess, but when I pushed on that, he backtracked a little to say that it is more "operational guidance","

Again, Your Honor, I Plead Guilty!

All this talk is making me seriously think about going back to SELRES. I have 17 years on the books and can sign up for 3 quick years and make some $ in the process, including a bonus I think, but a good portion of that will most likely go to me paying air fare/rental car to travel to my Unit.

(I hope Big Brother sees this and puts me back on His good side)

All I have to do is brace myself for the "Death by Paperwork" feeling one gets as an Officer in a SELRES Unit.

(I hope Big Brother doesn't see that last bit).

Complete rant post here…..

It is obviously not hard to find an O-5 or above that would be willing to tell you they don't want you hanging out in the IRR. That's not news. But they have a harder time telling you how much you should do to get over the mythical hurdle of judgment to ‘deserve’ a reserve retirement. If they ultimately conclude that you need to be drilling every year you weren't AD over 20 years, I wouldn't have been able to meet that standard. Either way, I always appreciate our judgmental military culture. The guy on the phone doesn’t pay your retirement, so get off the horse of ‘we’ don’t want to pay retirements to o-5’s who do the Chaplain’s History course.

Stop being passive aggressive and put something down in writing on what’s acceptable, and then stop judging people if they follow the establish rules. It’s easy to spout some nonsense on the phone when you don’t have to back it up with official U.S. Code or administrative/agency law. We didn’t make the rules, and no one cared to ask us. This isn't rocket science. I'm trying to get at least 50 points a year. Tell me what is a legal way to do that. But be honest and don't change the rules constantly because the real objective is to obstruct any non-drilling IRR member from obtaining a retirement. They seem to hate the idea of a non-drilling IRR member getting a retirement at all.

If this isn't what's really going on, then it devolves into absurdity. You deserve it because you signed up for JPME 1 distance learning; you don't because you did the basic Airman course on NETC. Who should judge? Who knows, but write it down and communicate the message. The law says if we get 50 points a year for 20 years, we qualify for a retirement. It does NOT say the services have to provide correspondence courses to get those points. If it's too difficult to approve courses case by case, just get rid of them then, and I'll do the VTU or SELRES if a retirement is still worth the effort.

(Big Brother, please forgive me for my opinions)
 
+1Jahawk

I've heard from a couple sources the restriction on courses is a way to save the Navy (DOD? I think Navy pays our retirement, right?) money.
-If you don't want people to do more than three years in the IRR, make that the rule.
-Do a study, and publish the results, showing how much money it saves
-Coordinate this with PERS and NETC
-Give it a "sunset" option for people who went IRR 6 months ago, thinking they'd be fine and now between a rock and hard place
-If you (RESFOR) think that NETC Basic Math is too easy, then get out slide rule and finish a course! Like you said USNJahawk, give us some options to get our 50 points and we'll do it!

Thanks for your analysis of the new retirement system recommendations by the way--interesting stuff, and it even inspired me to peek and see how the Royal Navy does it.
 

jmj

New Member
An observation on FEMA courses:

It seems like a few of the FEMA courses that were available when the 30SEP14 spreadsheet came out are now retired.

Taking the courses in oldest to newest order may maximize the number of FEMA courses you can take. That is assuming the oldest courses are also the most likely to become obsolete and be removed. I have a couple good years of points left to get and I'm thinking points will be harder and harder find as time goes on...so every point is a precious snowflake.

Defense Institute of Security Assistance Management courses:
Don't require a CAC card
Take a long time to do but aren't very hard.
 

N4Life

Member
Good thread, I wish I learned of this years ago.

If Pers is holding off points until the anniversary date, that would explain why no points were approved since last Feb (I did have my anniversary pts awarded but none of the courses). I hope they will have some sort of time limit, ie two months before your anniversary, they approve/disprove your courses. This ensures time to work on any new courses to meet the requirements for the year. I would hate (but sadly not surprised) for the Navy to disapprove a course and not give time for someone to get a good year, thus prevent them from receiving retirement.

As for Navy working on downsizing, its not exactly new. I was at PSD and overheard a complaint by an officer. S/He went into the reserves just prior to the promotion board, apparently told he would be in the IRR only until the promotion results came out then moved to SELRES. When the board passed her over for a lack of experience in the reserves, they received a 'you have seven months and then you're out of the Navy' letter. The officer was beyond pissed.

One rant, I do have, is the view many on active duty have for the reserves (with IRR even lower). I had a gate guard tell me, they didn't have to salute green id cards. I lit him up, then had his OIC report to the gate so I could rip him one. I'm sure it was just one person who didn't feel like saluting an officer (he will not make that mistake again) and not a policy, but the whole perception is disappointing.
 

subreservist

Well-Known Member
Some interesting things in your post:

S/He went into the reserves just prior to the promotion board, apparently told he would be in the IRR only until the promotion results came out then moved to SELRES. When the board passed her over for a lack of experience in the reserves, they received a 'you have seven months and then you're out of the Navy' letter.

One rant, I do have, is the view many on active duty have for the reserves (with IRR even lower). I had a gate guard tell me, they didn't have to salute green id cards. I lit him up, then had his OIC report to the gate so I could rip him one. I'm sure it was just one person who didn't feel like saluting an officer (he will not make that mistake again) and not a policy, but the whole perception is disappointing.

1) It's unlikely for an officer to get passed over for lack of "reserve" experience, unless it involves a lengthy stay in IRR or a break in service. If they had truly just left active duty and only been IRR for a "short" time, the board wouldn't recognize anything different from a SELRES record. It's also kinda interesting to get career development advice from a PSD? (You kinda back and forth between it being a he or she...but that doesn't really matter).

2) Active duty really have no reason to distinguish between SELRES and IRR members. Out of sight, is out of mind and reserve is reserve, so although some have a low view on reserve members, they have no "preference" or even realize there are categories to the reserve.

3) I haven't heard green cards referenced in a while. Are you speaking on the old school ID's that were easy to distinguish active (green) and reserve (pink) or something else? In either case, green always referenced active, so I'd be surprised someone saying they didn't salute green cards (typo? or are were talkin' different id?). I don't think you can distinguish active and reserve on the CAC, unless the flag color is different...I've always wondered about that, as the flag on my card is pink and I wondered if active was green.
 

N4Life

Member
Not sure why the officer was at PSD or the specific details, just commenting on an overheard complaint.

Yes, I'm talking about the old school ID, the type I stopped using in 2002. When my wallet was recently stolen, I went to a local base for a replacement and received a green, old school, horizontal id card. According to the office, SELRES receive a CAC card that looks the same as active duty, but IRR as "non mobilizable reservist" receive the old school green card (odd since green meant active duty). If I am picked up for SELRES or other activation, I could go in and get a CAC. Out of curiosity, are you IRR with a CAC or SELRES?
 
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subreservist

Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, are you IRR with a CAC or SELRES?

I'm SELRES. Now that you jogged my memory, I do recall getting a green reserve card when I left active in 2005. I honestly didn't know it signified being in the IRR until several years later (and by then I was completely discharged as I never pursued points). Then I got a second wind and re-affiliated.
 
As for Navy working on downsizing, its not exactly new. I was at PSD and overheard a complaint by an officer. S/He went into the reserves just prior to the promotion board, apparently told he would be in the IRR only until the promotion results came out then moved to SELRES. When the board passed her over for a lack of experience in the reserves, they received a 'you have seven months and then you're out of the Navy' letter. The officer was beyond pissed.
.

Yeah, "they" make a big deal saying "officers in the IRR are considered for promotion", but I think what it really means is that they are considered for not-promoting, so it counts as a FOS. The board convening order (pushed to the public after after board convenes) is the instruction set for the board members. It lists what is required to be (a) fully qualified, which is the first cut, and (b) best qualified, which is the real cut. For the reserveFY15 O-5 line selection board it says something like "participation in SELRES, in general, is a critical factor in determining best and fully qualified." http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n...5line/Documents/FY15/RO5L Convening Order.pdf

So, the person you mention probably had a great record, but when the board saw "Active Status Pool" they voted a zero confidence.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
VXC - the link you posted is also exactly what SelRes looking to move up need to see, in particular the board precepts, (i.e., what is important for promotion.) The skills requirements are on pages 3-4 and the additional considerations on pages 6-7.
 
VXC - the link you posted is also exactly what SelRes looking to move up need to see, in particular the board precepts, (i.e., what is important for promotion.) The skills requirements are on pages 3-4 and the additional considerations on pages 6-7.
Yup, the info is a year behind, but shouldn't change too much from year to year.
 

Sam I am

Average looking, not a farmer.
pilot
Contributor
VXC, can you repost that stuff in the Promotion in the IRR thread?

USNJhawk, you nailed it. A better solution in my mind would be to improve the courses on NETC...not eliminate NETC courses.
 

RHINOWSO

"Yeah, we are going to need to see that one again"
None
Glad I had a year in SELRES before my O-5 board, but even then 1325 promotion was <20% IIRC. I was surprised when I got it and certainly wouldn't expect it in the IRR.
 

Thomas Gauthier

New Member
I called NPC last week and informed them many of the FEMA courses are updated and a lot of the JKO courses are no longer available on the site. The civilian I spoke with stated he had heard nothing about courses on the list not being available. The Navy puts our a list of approved courses, but many are no longer offered.
 

RHINOWSO

"Yeah, we are going to need to see that one again"
None
I called NPC last week and informed them many of the FEMA courses are updated and a lot of the JKO courses are no longer available on the site. The civilian I spoke with stated he had heard nothing about courses on the list not being available. The Navy puts our a list of approved courses, but many are no longer offered.
Standard Navy - make a policy without consulting those involved in the process PERS-912 and have no process to follow through to ensure approved classes are available.

Basically make it a jumbled mess, adds to the difficultly to comply and discern if there is an actual policy.
 
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RHINOWSO

"Yeah, we are going to need to see that one again"
None
NPC JKO approved courses that are still available on JKO. 53 total points available assuming you can get approval for J3ST-US026 which takes some additional doing (I haven't gotten approved for that yet).

J3OPMN1225
J3OPUS017
J3OPUS018
J3OPUS109
J3OPUS112
J3OPUS120
J3OPUS124
J3OPUS190
J3OPUS358
J3STUS026
J3STUS010
J3STUS121
J3TAUS014
J4OPUS116
J4OPUS129
J4OPUS143
J4OPUS176
J4OPUS184
J5OPUS002
J6SNUS273
J6SNUS299
J6SNUS385
J6SNUS386
 
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