Correspondence Course Review

[vxc961]

Called PERS to get a points update. Was told that they could only see the total points after the annual update and couldn't see interim points posted before close out. Any suggestions on key words to use as I thought they were looking at the same ASOSH that is visible via CAC?

Here's my experience:
-if it's a PO2 that answers, your screwed. You'll get an incomplete (possibly somewhat true), misleading and/or partially inaccurate answer. Just ignore it.
-If it's a civilian, you've got a shot
-I've actually had maybe a slightly better than 50% average of people being helpful. It's just maddening that you're made somehow to feel that their time is so valuable that you can't say "so wait, don't you look at the same ASOSH that's visible by CAC?" or in my case "can you please just point me to the statute/instruction/whatever that says that?"

Good luck in any case!

 

[vxc961]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the great information in this thread. I just read the message from Oct yesterday, and called PERS to get the scoop. I came out better than some, because I had completed 30 pts on July 26th, but my last 5 pts in Nov don't count. Incredibly disingenuous of our leadership to write a message that says automatic point granting has been stopped, when in actuality, they just cut off everything from NETC's site.

So passing along some things I've found out in the last day (and correct me if you've found otherwise):
-The spreadsheet from 30SEP14 on the BUPERS IRR FAQ website is the ONLY courses we can do as IRR members right now. It has tabs for different point sources, like DAU, Air University, NWC, FEMA, etc.
-The PERS help desk told me ANY course on that list is approved. I point this out because the message makes it sound like SELRES need prior approval to take a course, yet IRR members do not. We're just expected to fax in certificates. I don't want to turn in FEMA courses and have them later say that isn't professionally developing
-Many of the options in the spreadsheet cannot be attempted. I called the Air Force today to ask about their distance learning JPME. Their student services said no IRR members. Almost everything they have is behind CAC firewalls. I couldn't even get the NWC site to load. These JPME courses would be really painful, but are enough points to get me through my last 3 years if they could just be accessed.
-DAU cannot be done unless you are SELRES or affiliated with the acquisition community, work for a contractor, etc.
-JKO courses on our list apparently aren't showing up on the JKO site (haven't verified this yet)
-I couldn't find the Defense Contract Audit Institute, so I don't know if it's possible to do those courses
-FEMA works. Takes a while to slog through the courses. I just faxed off 5pts to finish this year. I'll resubmit when they accidentally/deliberately lose the certificates in 60 days.

Most of what they put out there are for SELRES, when those guys don't need points via correspondence really. My favorite thing I found out yesterday....I thought, eff it, I'll go back SELRES. I call the recruiters. They said that PERS expects us to do the entire process on our own, with no recruiting assistance to reaffiliate. I'm sure no one at PERS knows how you get a physical when you cannot work with PERS to set up an appointment at an MTF. Plus, I was reminded that I would be under assession medical standards, so if you have waivers, it would be an uphill battle.

I guess a big fallback could be IRR VTU. I have an aversion to drilling but not getting paid though. I may have to suck it up for three years if that is the only way, because it's 48 guaranteed points. This could work though, couldn't it? A downside is that I don't think you can just come and go as you please. If you are VTU, you have the same show up reqs as SELRES. So you can't skip half the weekends and do the rest via correspondence.

Overall, I don't trust PERS/NAVRESFORCOM to allow us to keep banging out correspondence courses as the sole way to get to 20 years. I think the 'quarterly' updates for the ASN approved course list will probably keep removing stuff until we don't have any options left. If and when they get NETC back in the fold, there will probably be next to 0 courses that someone can do that qualifies as professionally enhancing. The 5 pt course I had invalidated was Naval Space. Ironically, the only non-flying billet I have ever applied for was with Naval Space Command. I think that course was very relevant, much more so than Basic Algebra, Airman, and others I took through NETC. You can make a case that a lot of courses broaden our knowledge.

OK, so when the msg came about about limiting courses, I called RESFOR and was told (I'm paraphrasing) "we don't want to pay retirement to O-5's who get points by learning about chaplain's history". I'm a Naval Academy Blue & Gold Officer (BGO), and was recently told that RESFOR said a similar thing to that leadership, and that funerals and BGO duties weren't on the chopping block.
-I asked RESFOR, if I could see the data regarding how much the Navy would be saved by making it harder for IRR guys to get points. You can imagine the volumes of statistically significant data I got back (they ignored the question).
-I feel strongly that a lot of the courses that RESFOR feels "aren't relevant", actually did a lot to broaden and/or deepen my knowledge of the Navy and make me a better officer. I'm not going to fix a 3-phase motor after completing the EM2 basic knowledge course, but I will be a better engineering leader after that; or even better at understanding what the EM2 who lands in my reserve unit did! I'm on the verge of a rant here, so I'll move on.

-Going to the VTU from the IRR is just as hard as going SELRES. I left SELRES with a torn ACL, and to overcome that it took me 16 months to get back to SELRES (and I feel like I'm selling my IRR brothers man!)
-NAVET recruiting is now handled by a single NCC in Millington. I've got his name if anybody needs it (I went through before he took over)
-If you're IRR, start looking at funeral duty and Blue & Gold Officer. I'm not an academy grad, but in both of those I feel like I'm actually adding value to the Navy.

Let's get to retirement!

 

[RHINOWSO]

RHINOWSO, I tried searching for the first couple JKO courses on the list and none of them come up. Which ones are you seeing in the course catalog? I wonder if I did something wrong on my profile. It had a weird audience section where you select a bunch of organizations. Maybe I didn't select enough of them.

Yeah I jumped to a couple that interested me and they were there. The search function is kinda screwy, but the first couple courses aren't available. Intro to urban warfare, L16, intro to non-lethal, and JFO are available, among others.

 

[PT Goodtimes]

I knocked out a bunch of FEMA courses (a slog) and submitted certificates (via fax and registered mail) yesterday. I guess I'll wait 60 days and then call to see if they've hit my account? My anniversary date is not until May, so I have a little time.

I previously enrolled in NWC distance learning, TDSM, and I recall that I am supposed to start in February. I logged on to the NWC website but couldn't see anything (other than I show on a waiting list). Does anyone know if NWC sends a 'welcome' email for a particular course or anything like that?

Also has anyone heard any gouge on whether the Naval Advancement Center courses are coming back online?

Finally, is anyone else worried that they'll end correspondence courses altogether? I am at 15 yrs (16 if the FEMA certs go through). I think I'd be cooked if they do that.

 

[Sam I am]

I knocked out a bunch of FEMA courses (a slog) and submitted certificates (via fax and registered mail) yesterday. I guess I'll wait 60 days and then call to see if they've hit my account? My anniversary date is not until May, so I have a little time.

I previously enrolled in NWC distance learning, TDSM, and I recall that I am supposed to start in February. I logged on to the NWC website but couldn't see anything (other than I show on a waiting list). Does anyone know if NWC sends a 'welcome' email for a particular course or anything like that?

Also has anyone heard any gouge on whether the Naval Advancement Center courses are coming back online?

Finally, is anyone else worried that they'll end correspondence courses altogether? I am at 15 yrs (16 if the FEMA certs go through). I think I'd be cooked if they do that.

I'm enrolled in NWC for JMO...I received an email telling me to confirm my enrollment, which I did, said I would receive an email on the 18th of Feb that kicked off the course.

I got a bad feeling about the NETC courses...I don't think they can end the correspondence courses. If they do, I'm screwed. It may be time to start writing letters to politicians. I'm at 15 good years...I'll have 18 if I do one JPME course per year. The last two could be touch and go.

 

[RHINOWSO]

Yeah, I think NETC stuff might go by the wayside... Thankfully I got onto JKO and knocked out my 7 remaining points for the year - I think I'll push ahead on some others so the day after my anniversary I can complete 35 pts and coast the rest of year 20, only doing stuff that I want to if it's easy to knock out.

 

[RHINOWSO]

Looking at the JKO courses, about 1/2 of them are no longer offered. I enrolled in all I could to get them on the books.

I did 7 pts and found the rest equal about 38pts, so it'll help you limp through a year and some extra, but that's about it.

Fortunately that is enough for me and hopefully they'll keep the list updated as JKO changes, but who knows.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Did NETC last year for a full 130 points, however I understand it is no longer allowed. Looking at JKO and FEMA this year but it does seem minimal. Does anyone know how the Blue and Gold works for retirement points?

 

[vxc961]

Did NETC last year for a full 130 points, however I understand it is no longer allowed. Looking at JKO and FEMA this year but it does seem minimal. Does anyone know how the Blue and Gold works for retirement points?

If you're at all interested in BGO, sign up now (contact USNA admissions, PM me, whatever...). You'll get an info packet, take a stupid test, pass it, and get assigned as an "Admissions Affiliate" or something.

You then have to do a week of training in Annapolis to be called an "Admissions Officer" and at that point you can start getting points. The training is only offered in like June or July, so if you sign up now you might be able to make it this year. It's actually decent training, and I had a blast in Annapolis.

Anyway, after that, you'll have an excel spreadsheet thing that you fill out yourself for the month, give to your Area Coordinator to sign, and then send to PERS-911 to shred. Seriously, since we (IRR) can't see what points we have, can't figure out where the points came from when PERS tells us we have them, and can't figure out how long to wait until PERS *should* have updated the points, it's tough. But if you keep those monthly spreadsheets with signatures, that should give you some security.

The spreadsheets keep track of incremental hours and carry them over to the next month, so you don't really lose anything. It's 1-pt per three hours of work, and I log *everything*. In fact, this post will go down as 30 minutes of affiliate recruitment, so please sign up to justify the taxpayer expense! I average from 0 to 7 points per month, and probably got 40 points per year?

 

[USNJahawk]

I called PERS 93 yesterday and talked to the head clerk about IRR ASP mustering, which has been confusing (canx one year, on the next). He knew a little bit about the correspondence courses. He said that a single chief is culling the list to get the NETC courses added to the next approved ASN spreadsheet. He doesn't know if they'll categorize them as approved for officers or enlisted. Take it with a grain of salt....

An interesting comment he made was that "their" intent (whoever is they) is to make it so there is only about 3 years worth of correspondence points total out there for non-drilling reservists to do. This was in response to my asking why have courses on the ASN approved spreadsheet that can't be accessed without a CAC, which they don't give to non-drilling IRR members. I told him many of us would just do whatever the Navy told us. If you just write it down on the public IRR website that you don't want us doing courses for X years in a row in the IRR and not even doing VTU, then just publish that. I would say fine, I'll go VTU, or do FHD, or BGO. He said that they are rewriting the entire reserves instruction to account for this issue. Internal "policy" has been they don't want people doing more than 3 years in a row I guess, but when I pushed on that, he backtracked a little to say that it is more "operational guidance", whatever that means. The gentleman was actually very helpful. He said he has no idea how long it will take to get these major instructions (I think it's the 1001) updated.

When he heard I have sent off my last 5 pts (new FEMA courses) to qualify for 17 years, he said I would be fine, implying much of these changes won't impact me with the time I have left to go. He advised taking my Naval Space course certificate from Nov '14 and faxing it in to PERS 912 asking for a waiver. I had that invalidated after the message came out.

 

[atmahan]

Thanks for all the info in this thread so far!

Wow! Talk about feeling like Big Brother is watching! I'm starting to get paranoid.

vxc961 said:

"I called RESFOR and was told (I'm paraphrasing) "we don't want to pay retirement to O-5's who get points by learning about chaplain's history". "

That sounds like me! That's exactly what I did during my last Anniversary Year! (although I am an O-4).

also,

USNJahawk said:

"Internal "policy" has been they don't want people doing more than 3 years in a row I guess, but when I pushed on that, he backtracked a little to say that it is more "operational guidance","

Again, Your Honor, I Plead Guilty!

All this talk is making me seriously think about going back to SELRES. I have 17 years on the books and can sign up for 3 quick years and make some $ in the process, including a bonus I think, but a good portion of that will most likely go to me paying air fare/rental car to travel to my Unit.

(I hope Big Brother sees this and puts me back on His good side)

All I have to do is brace myself for the "Death by Paperwork" feeling one gets as an Officer in a SELRES Unit.

(I hope Big Brother doesn't see that last bit).

 

[Randy Daytona]

Has anyone else looked at the Military Compensation and Retirement Modernization Commission report on reducing retirements that came out today - specifically the notes at the bottom of pages 9 and 13 that reference the Navy Reserves?

 

[vxc961]

http://mldc.whs.mil/

 

[vxc961]

Oops... meant to post these in the above post:

1 The Commission reviewed policies associated with RC members in a nonpay status who drill for points for retirement purposes, particularly those of the Navy (BUPERSINST 1001.39F) because it represents many of these RC members. According to Navy Reserve manpower subject matter experts, most of these Navy RC members reached high-year tenure without accumulating 20 years of qualifying service for retirement purposes. Nonpay drilling allows these members to reach retirement eligibility requirements. Some members voluntarily request to be in a nonpay drilling status to accommodate their individual needs. Others are unable to find a vacant billet for which they would receive both pay and drill points, typically because they were promoted out of a paid billet during a time when promotions were not connected to vacancies at the next pay grade. Navy RC promotion policies have changed to generally prevent promotions independent of paid billets at the next pay grade. The Commission urges the Services to communicate policy concerning nonpay drilling to RC members earlier in their careers and to align RC manpower and personnel levels to further reduce nonpay drilling.

4 The Commission reviewed policies associated with RC members in a nonpay status who drill for points for retirement purposes, particularly those of the Navy (BUPERSINST 1001.39F) because it represents many of these RC members. According to Navy Reserve manpower subject matter experts, most of these Navy RC members reached high-year tenure without accumulating 20 years of qualifying service for retirement purposes. Nonpay drilling allows these members to reach retirement eligibility requirements. Some members voluntarily request to be in a nonpay drilling status to accommodate their individual needs. Others are unable to find a vacant billet for which they would receive both pay and drill points, typically because they were promoted out of a paid billet during a time when promotions were not connected to vacancies at the next pay grade. Navy RC promotion policies have changed to generally prevent promotions independent of paid billets at the next pay grade. The Commission urges the Services to communicate policy concerning nonpay drilling to RC members earlier in their careers and to align RC manpower and personnel levels to further reduce nonpay drilling. Service members would receive CP to promote midcareer retention. This comparison of retirement assets assumes CP is saved and invested for retirement. 5 The figure represents a close approximation of the preferences of the Commission’s recommendations, since the survey did not address all compensation recommendations of the Commission.

 

[USNJahawk]

I've followed the various military compensation reviews for a while. This one probably has the best chance to have some of it enacted because they focused on keeping the force profile the same. MIT/RAND did a study a while back that recommended vesting with a 25% defined benefit retirement after 10 years, but that would cause way too many people to stay in until 10 and then produce a huge dropoff that would flatten out around the 15 -20 year mark waiting to hit the next gate. That one had no chance. I like that they are thinking about how they provide some retirement benefits to the 83% of people who won't reach 20 years. It's just crazy to think that a kid who joins the military gets nothing from their employer if they don't stay in for 20 years. TSP without a match is so out of line with civilian employers. This new commission kept the sacred cow of 20 years, but reduced the multiple to 40% of final base pay. For a new reservist, I wonder if it is even worth the effort depending on how many years you had left. Some of you have strategically tried to max out points, but I'm guessing most IRR who earn a retirement are doing close to the minimum for points. Even the majority of SELRES non-flying probably average only about 70 points I'd bet.

Right now I'm on track to get about 70% of the 50% active duty retirement, at least when the payments start (35% of my final pay). This new proposal would mean I'd get 70% of 40%, or 28% of my final high-3 pay. Still nothing to spit at, but I'm sure it will peel some more people off the retirement track in the reserves, which is probably viewed as a benefit to the DoD. They also recommended a 401(k) match for reservists, though it sounded immaterial in amounts to me.

The radical idea in the report was that you could ask for a lump sum payment when you retire (even reservists), but the language is terrible describing what that means. Nothing is for free, so I figure you're giving up a sizable amount of the total value of payments if you take much of it up front. And normal payments start at age 67 for everyone regardless, so it's confusing.