Sounds legit enough. I don't know anyone with 1 DFC, let alone two. this dude must be a water walker.
http://www.luke.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123437149#.VMLAIOf1Hrs
http://www.luke.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123437149#.VMLAIOf1Hrs
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Hawg dude gets a second DFC
- Thread starter Swanee
- Start date
"Two sections of F-18 Super Hornet fighter jets responded to the Marines' request for close-air support but couldn't help them because they would not fly below the clouds covering the mountains below."
Why does the AF constantly have to throw jabs in press releases?
Why does the AF constantly have to throw jabs in press releases?
Is it untrue? Seems like part of why he is being recognized is because he found a way in when others couldn't. Is there something more to the story regarding the F-18s?
Me thinks you're taking this one a little personally.? Good on the AF dude for getting it done, and good on the Rhino guys for not flying into a mountain. Most importantly, good for the Marines for getting out in once piece.
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You don't know many Air Force guys then...While this guy seems to have earned his DFC in spades there are a few USAF guys out there sporting them that I have to scratch my head at. Best example I can think of, the C-17 pilots who dropped the 173rd Airborne Brigade into northern Iraq during the intial stages of OIF got DFC's. The fact that it was even considered a 'combat jump' in the first place caused some grumbling among some Army guys I know since it was an unopposed jump into an airfield already occupied by US SOF and Kurdish Peshmerga. No opposition encountered or shots fired, not sure why 'combat' awards were even considered. Ironically or not, the only Navy guy I personally knew with a DFC got it flying for the Air Force while Navy guys who did similar things at the same time and place got little or nothing.
One other thing I have to scratch my head at was why he got the Air Force Combat Action Medal as well, seems redundant on top of the already applicable Air Medal points.
The AF combat action medal just says you got shot at or were in the shit, it's supposed to be similar to a CAB/CIB. It has no "points" associated and if just chest candy to show who's "been in the shit."
The C-17 drop in northern Iraq is a bit of a joke in some AF circles. Just ask the MH-53 guys that were already on the ground.
As far as awards: whatever, I've got 2 DFCs. I seriously doubt it's going to make me the next AF GO. If you just happen to be the poor asshole who bumbled into a shitty situation and came out the other end, you may get some bling. Doesn't mean you're special, just that you were the guy there at the time. You respond to the situation according to your training. Awards are as much about recognizing the hard work of an entire community as they are about the person.
The C-17 drop in northern Iraq is a bit of a joke in some AF circles. Just ask the MH-53 guys that were already on the ground.
As far as awards: whatever, I've got 2 DFCs. I seriously doubt it's going to make me the next AF GO. If you just happen to be the poor asshole who bumbled into a shitty situation and came out the other end, you may get some bling. Doesn't mean you're special, just that you were the guy there at the time. You respond to the situation according to your training. Awards are as much about recognizing the hard work of an entire community as they are about the person.
There are too many unknowns there. Hawg Z diagrams vs Rhino Z diagrams are different. Especially when employing the gun. (It helps to have your gun not canted up for the BFM guns kill) Think about the airspeeds you employ at in the Hornet/Rhino vs what the A-10 does. He can get a lot slower than you can- which gives him better CFIT avoidance as he has more time and a tighter turning circle- and still accurately employ his weapons. I think what this example shows is that niche that the A-10 can fill well (and a capability we're going to lose when it goes away without a legit replacement).
The reason I am a little confused by it is that the CAB and the Navy's Combat Action Ribbon can't be earned for actions in the air since there are awards that already cover that, specifically Air Medal points. Same thing with the Bronze Star, can't get it for actions in the air. It is redundant and shouldn't be, that is my point.
well A-10C is arguably better "tech" for CAS I'd say, but yeah, maybe in that guy's day for sure
I was referring more to their SA and capes and integrating them into the sensor plan in the stack. Each platform brings different capes and issues.
I'll throw out some obserations here which I'm sure will ruffle F/A-18 guys' feathers...
I've never met an 18 guy who would go low. Hell, I've rarely seen F/A-18 guys lower than 10k (I know they do it, I'm just saying what I've seen).
How low? I've flown in my helo at less than 100 feet and looked down at the top of an A-10 alongside of me. When they fly like that routinely, hearing this isn't that surprising.
And just for comparison, the only dudes I've flown in the Navy who have DFC's were on a flight where the crewchief shot five dudes out of a tree with the GAU-17.
I've never met an 18 guy who would go low. Hell, I've rarely seen F/A-18 guys lower than 10k (I know they do it, I'm just saying what I've seen).
How low? I've flown in my helo at less than 100 feet and looked down at the top of an A-10 alongside of me. When they fly like that routinely, hearing this isn't that surprising.
And just for comparison, the only dudes I've flown in the Navy who have DFC's were on a flight where the crewchief shot five dudes out of a tree with the GAU-17.
It's as if having a tactical airspeed about twice that of an A-10 or helo makes one's terrain clearance tasking more critical. That, and the A-10 guys are probably more willing to take the risk of an errant AK bullet, AAA fire (yes, the koolaid says 'ADA' now; suck it) or MANPAD shot at them. No expert on either, but the A-10 would probably have a much better chance at making it home after being hit. I seem to recall reading about the A-6 and Tornado guys going in at 50 feet in Desert Storm and getting the shit kicked out of them.
TACAIR still trains to go in low, even VAQ. But it is really only useful in very specific situations.
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