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ASTB-E/APEX 4 Experience -DEC 2013

Tasha

Active Member
I can't give enough thanks to the gents on here for providing seamlessly endless information and gouges about the new apex part of the astb-e. u

The test is legit none the lesser. I went from getting perfect scores on the old test to this 44 3/5/4. I'm not the best academically but I'll push perfection within every inch of my breath. The Marine OSO and the Navy OR said to push full 8s and 9s to be competitive. If your SAT scores aren't 1000 percent the asvab can be taken in its place. I know there's a SECNAVDIR on officer promotions to the T's and I's where they factor age, race, marital status and command hours along with your test scores but I guess that's for another section on this forum.

I feel like I failed miserably after getting hyped and siked about the test. I'm doing a retake February 18th. My TIS and stats all zero out next year Sept so I have to make this test count before the end of my MSO.

what? 60 OAR is fine, if you were going USMC the PFT is big for them, USN it is your ASTB and you probably shouldn't have retaken.
I too, am slightly confused why someone with perfect test scores would retake a test. :eek:
 

Zak Ziv

New Member
Hey guys! I've been reading through the posts on this thread for the last week or so and doing my best to prepare myself for the ASTB which I am scheduled to take on 12/11/14. First of all, I want to thank everyone who has posted up until this point as I wouldn't have had any idea how to prepare for this exam without all of the info that people have provided here. To study for the exam I've been using a combination of the books/study guides that users have posted/suggested here as well as performing some exercises to practice my dichotic listening skills. The one part of the test that I have not been able to practice or study for is the joystick portion of the practical examination. I have read in earlier posts that the simulator that is used on the test is or is very similar to the Saitek X52 Flight Control System or the Cougar Thruster HOTAS. Either way I am considering purchasing one of these systems and I am looking for some feedback from some of the users as to what they recommend with regard to this and whether or not it will actually be of assistance to me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
 

izlt

New Member
I have studied and will be taking ASTB next month. I am seriously excited about taking this test.
I have studied nomenclatures of airplanes and boats (of what they do), some physics associated with aircraft operations, some measuring scales in the pilot's cockpit, what aircrafts encounter depending on different temperature, pressure, and altitude, lights and signs in airport, historical figures of the space projects, reading a map (longitude and latitude), shapes of the wings, and axis of aircraft. What else do I need to study? I am honing my knowledge by going over constantly but I really wanna know what else the test covers other than I listen above. I feel that I have all of the different ASTB test guide books and they are somewhat different. Barron's guide book tells me that that book is all I need for testing.
 

Sundevil106150

Well-Known Member
Hey guys! I've been reading through the posts on this thread for the last week or so and doing my best to prepare myself for the ASTB which I am scheduled to take on 12/11/14. First of all, I want to thank everyone who has posted up until this point as I wouldn't have had any idea how to prepare for this exam without all of the info that people have provided here. To study for the exam I've been using a combination of the books/study guides that users have posted/suggested here as well as performing some exercises to practice my dichotic listening skills. The one part of the test that I have not been able to practice or study for is the joystick portion of the practical examination. I have read in earlier posts that the simulator that is used on the test is or is very similar to the Saitek X52 Flight Control System or the Cougar Thruster HOTAS. Either way I am considering purchasing one of these systems and I am looking for some feedback from some of the users as to what they recommend with regard to this and whether or not it will actually be of assistance to me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Joy stick won't help. Its literally like space invaders just a cross hair you need to keep on a moving square. Just study the book and wing the joy stick portion and follow the directions. Good luck.
 

JEMRS95

Joe Mama
55/666 thanks guys, couldn't have done it with out y'all. If you're new and you're looking at my post you probably went through the other posts and you're sitting pretty good.
 

aebchoi

Member
How was the BI-RV section of the test?

I was once in ROTC in college, but dropped out of it after one year. I feel like this will have a negative affect on my score. Any thoughts?
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
How was the BI-RV section of the test?

I was once in ROTC in college, but dropped out of it after one year. I feel like this will have a negative affect on my score. Any thoughts?
Nope. The test is a standardized test.
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
How was the BI-RV section of the test?

I was once in ROTC in college, but dropped out of it after one year. I feel like this will have a negative affect on my score. Any thoughts?

Your history will have no impact on the test, remember it's a computer and not a human grading your test.

As for the BI-RV, it's just a 100+ question survey that has no impact on your scores. Takes about 30-45 mins to complete and you can complete it at home either before or after the exam.
 

RMpilot

Member
I hope this helps someone like you all helped me. Thanks, everyone! I attached an easier-to-read PDF version.

ASTB-E Gouge
Date taken: 12/1/14
Result: 62, 8/9/8

About me:
· B.S. Commercial Aviation from UND
· CFII, CMEL-IA.
· Approximately 1000 flight hours, 700 dual given.
· GPA ~2.9 (I have regrets.)


How I studied

I primarily used Barron’s and Peterson’s test prep books, but I also did a fair amount of research for additional study material online. I completed all of the ASTB practice tests in both books at least once. I researched AW for people’s test experiences, and especially to find more information regarding the PBM.


General suggestions

Take the test at a time that you are normally active. I scheduled it too early, and had to drive an hour to the facility. Make the test fit within your normal pattern. This thing takes a long time and is a huge mental drain, so make sure you eat well and stay hydrated. Don’t get jacked up on caffeine beforehand, or you’ll crash half-way through. I was impressed by how much effort the test required, primarily due to the adaptive format.


Set-up

Test was taken on a laptop computer. Attached was a pair of lousy headphones and a Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar. The test software is unremarkable, but you should carefully read the instructions. The remaining time is only visible if you mouse over it, and the math portion has a “formula bar” at your disposal, although the formulas included were very basic and should not help much. The joystick and throttle, for those of us nerds who have our own, is a commercially-availble set-up. I’ll go into detail on it below, because I think understanding it can positively affect your PBM score.


Time

The test took me from 1030 (start) to 1330/1400-ish, but I took the full length of each available break period to get up and pace around. At the end of the test, you have the option to take the BI-RV test (Biographical Inventory with Response Verification) on the spot or do it at home, and I did it there so that I could receive my AQR/PFAR/FOFAR scores immediately. By the time that was complete and I had my score, it was 1530. So, the test takes a considerable amount of time. By the end, I was tired and hungry, so it would make sense to bring along a granola bar or something.


“Adaptive”

The adaptive test format was one of the most surprising aspects for me. I was well-used to taking FAA computerized tests, but the adaptive format made this a different experience. It is subtle, so you will just feel like you’re testing horribly with no explanation. I genuinely felt that I was failing, and thought about retaking the test a number of times. I am not a particularly fast test-taker, and especially in the math and reading comprehension section, I was concerned that I would not complete a sufficient number of questions. Although a timer is available, it is not visible unless you hover over it with the mouse, and that adds to the claustrophobic sense of failure. The difficulty of the questions was so uniformly high that I had the distinct sense that although I was prepared for the general format of questions presented, the questions on the test were consistently more difficult than the test prep material I used.


Math Skills Test

I didn't pay enough attention in math classes (particularly algebra,) so I may have been seeing easy or mid-level questions. The test prep books and sample questions from NOMI described the test questions pretty well. There was a variety of rate and time questions, algebra (particularly exponentiation), geometric word problems, and probability. I saw no logarithms. One example that I stared at for far too long was X/X^2 =7, reduced into terms of X. Not a hard question, you’d just have to remember your exponent rules. I did not find a use for the “formula bar.”


Reading Skills Test

Of all the tests, this one best displayed the familiarity of question types, but heightened difficulty of the questions that the adaptive test delivers. All of the answers seemed very similar, and the challenge was not so much comprehension of the passage, but separating the answers and determining the “most correct” one. As other AW members have suggested, it occasionally felt like correct answers yielded more military-themed passages, but I can’t tell if that was just my imagination.


Mechanical Comprehension Test

Maybe the easiest section for me. Study basic concepts like mechanical advantage (ramps, pulleys, levers,) gas laws, fluid dynamics, etc. Here’s a couple of questions I remember:

· Transport category helicopters often use dual rotors to… a) reduce force required b) counteract angular momentum

· Imagine a metal sphere with ideal gas in it. Compress the sphere to 1/3rd of the original volume, but keep the temperature of the gas constant. What happens to the gas?


ANIT

I believe I scored very high in this section, so some of the sample questions I can remember may be among the more difficult ones. There was more questions about historic naval aviation aircraft than expected, and very little about the anatomy of a ship. No ship designations. Some about naval history. Most of the aviation knowledge could be acquired by studying the FAA’s Aeronautical Information Manual and Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. I mostly recall questions that were unique or interesting to me, rather than “average” questions, but here’s everything I could remember. Some wrong answers are actual wrong answers from the test, others are made-up examples of wrong answers.

· The F-9F Panther was which of these: a) swept wing aircraft b) jet

· What was the first “heavy carrier-based bomber” (Heavy?) (Korean war era?). a) FJ Fury b) A-3 Skywarrior c) Banshee d) Avenger

· Strategic Air Command’s front-line bomber in the 1950s: a) B-29 b) B-17 c) B-36 (Wait, that’s not Navy!)

· If a helicopter is in forward flight, the difference between the lift of the forward-going and aft-going blades is called what? a) Retreating Blade Stall b) Effective Transitional Lift c) Dissimilar Lift

· Where should you land if landing behind a heavy aircraft? a) before the heavy aircraft touched down b) after the heavy aircraft touched down c) where the heavy aircraft touched down

· Vertically aligned cylinder used for pulling ropes. a) Capstan b) Block and tackle c) Pulley

· Another name for the bow of a ship. a) Prow b) Front c) Nose

· In what battle was the Japanese Super Battleship Musashi sunk? a) Battle of Midway b) Battle of Leyte Gulf c) Guadalcanal d) Pearl Harbor

· If passing a slower aircraft, how do you pass? a) On the right b) On the left c) Above

· Information in the Aeronautical Information Manual includes: a) weather b) IFR preferred routes c) Air Traffic Control information (Wow, that’s obscure!)

· When does an aircraft’s wake begin? a) when the aircraft retracts flaps b) at the start of the takeoff roll c) at rotation d) after lift-off


NATFI

Brutal. This is a 30-minute section with 99 questions, each with two answers. Don’t underestimate this section, it was surprisingly difficult! The answers are all bad choices, and you will constantly feel like you are making a mistake by picking either answer. The mental struggle and desire to “get it right” had me feeling drained and almost light-headed after this section, which is unfortunately the last section before the PBM. My only suggestion for this is just to not be surprised by it, and be prepared for this to drain your focus prior to the PBM.

Questions often related to stress, integrity, rule-following, and receiving criticism, categories listed as “proprietary” on the NAMI website.

PBM

This is broken into four sections, which should be no surprise. I’ll describe each section and some strategies for each.


Spatial Orientation Aptitude

This primarily assesses aptitude for map-reading and spatial awareness. As a flight instructor, I can say that this is definitely a valid aptitude test for flight training! However, with a little prior knowledge and practice, I think this section can be “gamed” with reasonable success. The attached PDF from NPS is a good starting point for this and the other PBM tests. The test will allow you to practice as long as you want before starting… just do that until your response times are less than or equal to 2 seconds on average. At the end of the test, my average was under 2 seconds, and I had 1 incorrect answer. Note the number of questions that they will ask, because it was a little longer than I was expecting. Make flashcards and practice!


Dichotic Listening Test

Although not particularly difficult, this section requires some focus. If you weren’t ready for the NATFI section, your head might still be buzzing like mine was. I thought I knew what I was doing, and did not focus—as a result, I missed a few of the numbers. It was a really stupid way to lose a bunch of points. I recommend bringing your own headphones, or better yet, earbuds! The headphones I was given were very tinny and non-directional, so if your headphones can make it more directional that might help. Just bear down and focus hard here, and maybe try leaning your head in the direction of the “target ear.”


Tracking Tasks

The Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar supplied is a sturdy piece of hardware but it has some quirks. If you have flying experience, however, this will not really feel like an aircraft, and the test is not a flight simulator.

The stick is very stiff in the center, and to move it across either axis center (x or y) the stick will “catch.” This means that big corrections are easier than small ones, and you will have to work pretty hard to be precise around the center of the axes. Moving the targeting crosshair is somewhat analogous to moving an airplane, but there is enough difference that it does not excessively favor an experienced pilot. To move the crosshair left and right, you just move the stick left and right. But unlike an airplane, the crosshair has no “bank,” so the stick becomes a “go left/go right” lever, rather than a control of bank. It sounds minor, but if you’re a pilot, watch out for that. Try not to imagine that you are flying an airplane. That’s harder to do than you might think, but the crosshair is moving on the screen as well as the target dot. If you were flying an airplane, you would essentially be trying to move the target under the stationary crosshair, but on this test you are moving the crosshair over the target. To move the crosshair up, you’ll need to pull back on the stick, as in an aircraft. Again, you are not changing pitch, you are just moving a dot up and down.

The throttle has small clicking detents for idle and afterburner, but the test ignores them, so you should too. The most difficult part of the throttle is that it does not “set” the position of the throttle crosshair. The throttle track becomes like an additional stick axis, with a large deadzone in the center. A crude diagram will describe this best:

Sk9QWjw.png


Because stopping the throttle crosshair requires placing the throttle in the center of the axis, you’ll be doing that frequently. Unfortunately, there’s no tactile feedback to help you recognize when you’re in the deadzone, so you just have to see the crosshair stop moving. All of this sounds really pedantic, but when you’re doing this AND the stick simultaneously, and you’re used to using a stick and throttle in a completely different way, it might help to know.

Between the concentration and nerves, I found my forearms were burning by the end of the PBM section. I changed my seating position during the test, and I think this can help. When I took the test, the level of the chair relative to the height of the desk surface was such that my elbows were significantly lower than my wrists while holding the HOTAS controls. It’s not ergonomic and robs you of some additional precision your shoulder can give. (Think of how a fighter jet cockpit is laid out.) I put a couple phone books and my coat on my seat to bring my elbows up to just below my wrists’ height. I think this helped significantly and did a little to reduce fatigue.

The first tracking task is just the throttle alone, then stick, then stick and throttle combined.

The “Emergency Procedures” are just an exercise in task-switching and following directions. You’ll have two rotary knobs on the throttle, and there are three different emergency “scenarios.” Don’t bother taking notes on the scenarios… you won’t have time to look down. The scenarios involve three different combinations of the knobs, and then pressing a “reset” button to complete the procedure. (Also on the throttle.) As in the attached PDF, you’ll see two little, grainy gauges in the corner on the screen that indicate the position of each rotary. One mistake I made is easily avoidable… when you’ve finished setting the knobs in the right place, press reset immediately. You won’t know if you have the knobs set correctly until you press reset—nothing will cue you. For some reason, I was waiting for a message to tell me to reset, but you should not wait. I only had to do two of the “EPs.”


BI-RV

In order to see your AQR/PFAR/FOFAR scores, you’ll need to complete the BI-RV questionnaire. It is part of the test, but you can do it at home within 90 days of your test. After spending 3 hours turning my brain into a pulp, I wasn’t about to leave without my score, so I sat down and completed it. As my recruiter/proctor aptly put it, this thing will be as complicated as you make it.
 

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Last edited:

speedroller

Rangers
I hope this helps someone like you all helped me. Thanks, everyone! I attached an easier-to-read


Tracking Tasks

The Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar supplied is a sturdy piece of hardware but it has some quirks. If you have flying experience, however, this will not really feel like an aircraft, and the test is not a flight simulator.

The stick is very stiff in the center, and to move it across either axis center (x or y) the stick will “catch.” This means that big corrections are easier than small ones, and you will have to work pretty hard to be precise around the center of the axes. Moving the targeting crosshair is somewhat analogous to moving an airplane, but there is enough difference that it does not excessively favor an experienced pilot. To move the crosshair left and right, you just move the stick left and right. But unlike an airplane, the crosshair has no “bank,” so the stick becomes a “go left/go right” lever, rather than a control of bank. It sounds minor, but if you’re a pilot, watch out for that. Try not to imagine that you are flying an airplane. That’s harder to do than you might think, but the crosshair is moving on the screen as well as the target dot. If you were flying an airplane, you would essentially be trying to move the target under the stationary crosshair, but on this test you are moving the crosshair over the target. To move the crosshair up, you’ll need to pull back on the stick, as in an aircraft. Again, you are not changing pitch, you are just moving a dot up and down.
.

What you are saying that your Y axis on the joystick was not inverted? Am I interpreting this correctly?
 
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