Female applicants and haircuts

[BackOrdered]

words...

Nothing productive can come of this here. Villanelle is correct. If you want to continue this, take it over PM.

 

[Flash]

It has nothing to do with making people look gross or undignified, and everything to do with making everyone look the same in the most efficient manner possible. You're not John, Paul, Jane, or Sarah, you're a candidate. You wear the same uniform and have the same haircut as everyone else.

For all the proclamations about making everything as equal as possible in the military little things like this make it clear it isn't always the case. I am not saying there can't be some realism injected into how we deal with the different sexes but when you give folks a perceived privilege or advantage there will be some resentment no matter how small. So yes, even something as small as not having women get their haircut, especially when getting your hair shaved off has long been a symbolic rite of passage for men entering the military, can cause resentment.

And while you weren't shouting from the mountaintop please don't try to bring religion into the wardroom, it will not go over well.

 

[BigRed389]

I can refer to the Bible and then say I don't want to get into religion. I didn't say it was from the Bible in the first place for that reason. I was using it as an old proverb, and those who got the reference would have just got it and those who did not would just not. I only chose to elaborate when you thought it was from a person. I don't think my religion is everyone else's, but I can share mine if I so choose. Also, I am knowledgeable on various other religions and can appreciate the differences, similarities, or even just learning something new about them. I will not apologize for not being afraid to speak about religion. You say scripture has no place in OCS policy, and while I agree on separation of Church and State, have you ever counted how many times God is mentioned in OCS gouge? "I will trust in my God and the United States of America."

After you're commissioned, even more so as you are in a position of authority over subordinates, no you can't, at least not in a professional capacity.

 

[picklesuit]

I don't see the big deal, men aren't treated equally as it is: we are required to run faster, do more sit-ups, do more push-ups, and submit to a more rigid physical standard. My facial hair standards are always enforced/adhered to (regardless of my ethnic inability to grow said facial hair), and I am expected to handle myself alone, on the road, regardless of the number of female service members that may/may not outnumber me.
Keep kidding yourselves that anything under the purview of the government is "equal" when it comes to gender...
Grow your beautiful locks, I can give half a shit, just keep up when it is time to work/fly/drink...
Pickle

 

[villanelle]

It would be silly to engage in a pissing contest about this over the interwebs, so I'll wish you the best of luck at OCS and in your Naval career, and leave it at that.

 

[jaimej]

It would be silly to engage in a pissing contest about this over the interwebs, so I'll wish you the best of luck at OCS and in your Naval career, and leave it at that.

Thank you. I really appreciate it. I have learned a very valuable lesson in this piss contest.

All,

I would never discuss religion in the Wardroom, or any other professional or inappropriate platform. This is an internet blog, and I felt it a fitting platform to share my views. Lesson learned.

 

[BusyBee604]

Thank you. I really appreciate it. I have learned a very valuable lesson in this piss contest.

I would never discuss religion in the Wardroom, or any other professional or inappropriate platform. This is an internet blog, and I felt it a fitting platform to share my views. Lesson learned.

Good post. when you find yourself in a hole... and it seems to keep getting deeper... STOP DIGGIN'!

You are new to the military, not having served even one minute, yet you come across as somewhat combative, and lacking in tact. You have a good start to your chosen field being ProRec'd in Supply, good time to read more - post less, and concentrate on preparing for your next hurdle - OCS. Starting/participating in a "piss contest" at this point in a new career, is counter-productive IMHO.

Good luck!
BzB, Conscientous Objector to the "War On Women"!

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Holy shit this thread exploded like no other!

 

[AllYourBass]

Villanelle
You say scripture has no place in OCS policy, and while I agree on separation of Church and State, have you ever counted how many times God is mentioned in OCS gouge? "I will trust in my God and the United States of America."

Just thought I'd chime in with some thought food. The inclusion of "I will trust in my God" in a federal Code of Conduct is a textbook example of the failure to separate church and state. That sort of thing is becoming a bigger deal now that non-believers aren't at risk of being labeled filthy communist heathens for openly declaring a lack of Christian (or any) faith. You'll probably hear it come up sometime this decade, and I'm sure you've already heard all the mumbling about "under God" being inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance. I only bring it up because it's a pretty common argument I hear in defense of proclaiming religion in government spaces, but (it is entirely my own opinion that) the argument is flawed by today's standards.

I'm glad I checked for sources on this, because I didn't realize before that Eisenhower was president for both of these examples. Neat.

Source regarding establishment of the Code of Conduct (1955): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_U.S._Fighting_Force#Enactment
Source regarding changing Pledge of Allegiance language (1954): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_.22under_God.22

 

[Spekkio]

There's a fine line here. While it could be more clear cut if phrases like "under God" were eliminated from the Pledge of Allegience, there is a distinct difference between a generic mention of "God" and quoting a religious text.

It's also worth noting that 'separation of church and state' doesn't appear in the U.S. Constitution. What appears is that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." When you look at what the source document says instead of what your 5th grade social studies teacher told you, it becomes a little more clear why phrases that mention "God" are perfectly fine in government documents.

 

[AllYourBass]

There's a fine line here. While it could be more clear cut if phrases like "under God" were eliminated from the Pledge of Allegience, there is a distinct difference between a generic mention of "God" and quoting a religious text.

It's also worth noting that 'separation of church and state' doesn't appear in the U.S. Constitution. What appears is that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." When you look at what the source document says instead of what your 5th grade social studies teacher told you, it becomes a little more clear why phrases that mention "God" are perfectly fine in government documents.

But my fifth grade social studies teacher was such a sweet lady!

 

[LFCFan]

But my fifth grade social studies teacher was such a sweet lady!

She probably also told you that you had to be born in America to be President, like all mine did? Finally one day in high school, as a military brat born overseas, I had enough and actually looked at the thing and it only says you have to be born American. I went a good decade of my life thinking that thousands of military brats were screwed. Of course, we could have just remembered that John McCain was born in Panama to realize that our teachers were wrong.

 

[Spekkio]

In fairness to that teacher, 'natural born citizen' isn't defined in the Constitution and there is no law strictly defining what it means. It's generally taken to mean a person who is a citizen at birth, but the only law I could find that actually contained the phrase 'natural born citizen' was the Naturalization Act of 1790, which has since been repealed. There are also quite a few SCOTUS cases on the topic.

What's interesting to note is that even if 'birthers' were correct about Obama being born in Kenya, he would still have been eligible for U.S. citizenship at birth. In turn this would, in most people-not-named-Sean-Hannity's minds, make him a 'natural born citizen.'

So yea, I could see why this particular topic is confusing, even to 5th grade teachers and butt-hurt Republican pundits.

 

[Lasoiree]

I think the Navy made a good call on this, because short hair is very difficult to keep away from your face. I saw video clips of girls doing exercise with hair clips keeping hair to the side, but that doesn't work well for an intense workout especially with thin hair that slips loose.

I have hair past my shoulders and rarely wear it down. Friends ask why I have long hair if I'm always going to put it in a pony or a bun, but the point is, keeping hair up is much easier to do with longer hair.

 

[Jules_W]

Can someone from Class 01-15 or beyond please confirm that there are no longer forced haircuts. I completely trust what OP says, but "trust but verify." Mainly, I need to know if I need to bring hair ties/bobby pins now if this is indeed the case.