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Multiple concussions

Hey I am in the process of applying for NROTC as a a college freshman. I am for sure aiming to fly and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with how the navy views concussions in regards to flying.

Between 6th grade and junior year of high school I sustained 5 concussions (went to the hospital and was officially diagnosed for 3 of them cat-scan and all. I stayed overnight with short term memory for only the first one which was almost 7 years ago) from football and skiing. After my last concussion (jr year) I went to a rehabilitation center specially for concussions in order to have about 4 hours of testing done to see if damage had been sustained. The tests came back negative and I was cleared to play football senior year. I haven't had any more concussions or symptoms in 2 years.

I'm assuming the flight surgeon will be able to see everything in my records so my question is if a history like mine would disqualify me to fly?
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
It won't help, you will get a lot of scrutiny from NAMI.
Look up the waiver guide and talk to an Officer Recruiter. At the end of the day, the worst they can do is tell you is no and you can serve the Navy in another capacity; so apply/ask.
Pickle
 

Hopeful Hoya

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I'm in a similar situation, having sustained 3 concussions during my life. At least as far I understand the waiver guide, as long as your loss of consciousness/amnesia was less than 5 minutes you do not need a waiver, just a checkout with a Flight Surgeon.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
you could have an interesting situation, one of my guys had to jump through hoops getting documents from a single concussion.

a person sent to OCS as a pilot who cleared N3M for several concussions was later not cleared by NAMI due to those same concussions.

I would say get all the documents together and go from there knowing may have a long road to get cleared.
 

Hopeful Hoya

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
you could have an interesting situation, one of my guys had to jump through hoops getting documents from a single concussion.

a person sent to OCS as a pilot who cleared N3M for several concussions was later not cleared by NAMI due to those same concussions.

I would say get all the documents together and go from there knowing may have a long road to get cleared.

Really? That's surprising and kind of disheartening to me. Even if you have been fully cleared by a doctor with no recurring issues (the guy I saw is one of the founders of the ImPact test), you can still get the NAMI wammy?
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Really? That's surprising and kind of disheartening to me. Even if you have been fully cleared by a doctor with no recurring issues (the guy I saw is one of the founders of the ImPact test), you can still get the NAMI wammy?

yes, just because a civilian doc clears based on civilian standards does not mean you will be cleared by a military doctor, the rigors of standard military service are different than being a civilian, and just because N3M clears you doesn't mean NAMI will, different docs, different standards.
 

Hopeful Hoya

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Interesting. Well I tried Googling it, but do you know if I could find the standards relating to head injuries anywhere? I was planning on seeing this doctor this summer anyways just to get all my ducks in order for my future package, and I figure if I have the standards I can find out how much trouble I'm in.

(and sorry to jack your thread OP, just figured that we are seeming in the same boat now)
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Interesting. Well I tried Googling it, but do you know if I could find the standards relating to head injuries anywhere? I was planning on seeing this doctor this summer anyways just to get all my ducks in order for my future package, and I figure if I have the standards I can find out how much trouble I'm in.

(and sorry to jack your thread OP, just figured that we are seeming in the same boat now)

The issue is many items are "may be waiverable" that means one Doc may but another may not, so seeing that you have a condition that "may be waiverable" while a positive sign is not the end of the story.
 

Hopeful Hoya

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
So I guess the lesson is that there is no peace of mind until after your OCS physical results, and that it will be a very long two years for me. :confused:
 

Tycho_Brohe

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
So I guess the lesson is that there is no peace of mind until after your OCS physical results
To be honest, not even then. I've known people to get NPQ'ed more than halfway through OCS, and even a few who got NPQ'ed upon reporting to P'cola, who then had to be stashed while they waited to either lat transfer or get processed out. But since it's something that's out of your hands, it's not something that's worth your energy to worry about, hard as it may be to put it out of your mind. Stay in shape, don't get injured, study the gouge, and focus on the closest gator to the boat.
 

Hopeful Hoya

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
To be honest, not even then. I've known people to get NPQ'ed more than halfway through OCS, and even a few who got NPQ'ed upon reporting to P'cola, who then had to be stashed while they waited to either lat transfer or get processed out. But since it's something that's out of your hands, it's not something that's worth your energy to worry about, hard as it may be to put it out of your mind. Stay in shape, don't get injured, study the gouge, and focus on the closest gator to the boat.

Fair enough, just gotta keep the focus on the things I can control and face the hurdles as they come I guess.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I really do appreciate how great of a community we have here at AW. :)
 

LFCFan

*Insert nerd wings here*
Don't mention the two that weren't diagnosed by a doctor.

General bit of advice for these things: if a doc didn't say that you had X, even if you are 99% sure you did, you can say no and you aren't lying. You are not a doctor, you can't diagnose yourself.

I'm assuming the flight surgeon will be able to see everything in my records so my question is if a history like mine would disqualify me to fly?

They won't be able to magically look stuff up, except in some cases if you're a military brat, you have to bring all the documentation with you.
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
You have had three concussions while participating in a violent sport...th e most recent of which was several years ago. This is far easier for NAMI to work with than an unexplained LOC...loss of consciousness.

FWIW, many years ago I was providing a brief on this very subject when, out of the corner of my eye one of the attendees dropped his head. I made a quick mental note to liven up my presentations...but it was too late. The student, a winged pilot, had passed out, hit the table, then the floor. He was out until just before the ER crew arrived and eventually made it back to the cockpit almost 20 months later. Unexplained LOC is a huge deal when compared to playing football. Keep in mind this was 20+ years ago.
 

ANSblueskies

New Member
HELP! I am commissioning in two weeks from NROTC and I was just medically disqualified by NAMI 5 days ago. 4 years ago I put in a waiver to be in NROTC through DODMERB due to a head injury that I had when I was 13 (10 years ago). My loss of consciousness was only 3 minutes (according to the waiver guide this is considered a mild head injury); however my injury was also associated with a very small epidural hematoma (considered permanently disqualifying with rare exceptions). I have asked my command to put me on IRR and/or a letter to make an appointment with a local neurologist at the NAS Jax-I was denied both by my CO. Without a referral from my flight surgeon (I'm working on that) I can not see military physicians because I am not on active duty. The fact that my CO would deny me this in itself does not really make sense due to the fact I have high aptitude in the unit (BN XO, CNO distinguished MIDN award, yada yada yada). Anyways, I am currently a commercial pilot with about 300 hours, skydiver, scuba diver, etc. and have had no trouble in any 'stressful situations'. This injury was so long ago, I was medically cleared by my previous neuro and have had absolutely no repercussions since. Nami has had my paperwork since august 2013 and did not inform me until 5 days ago which puts me in a bad situation to apply for a waiver or an appeal....any advice? The Nami letter reads as follows:
1. headache (only stated in my med file that I had headaches following the injury) -well no s*it
2. intracranial injury of other & unspecified nature w/o mention of open intracranial wound, with LOC (<1 hr), severe TBI
3. PRK

After review, waiver is not recommended for all duty involving flying.

There's got to be a way to get this injury waived. Oh by the way, I was selected as a pilot in NOV. 2013 and because I am currently medically disqualified for my selection, I must select for another option before commissioning or my command will 'pick for me'. My two options are SWO and SWO nuke. I will obviously pick SWO so I can have a chance at a lat transfer but I need to deal with this waiver business now. I realize there are no guarantees in the military but how can NAMI disqualify me two weeks before commissioning on a condition that has been known for four years and was never a problem receiving up-chits and going on my aviation cruise (1st class). Is there anything I can do to fight this? Please help.
 
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