First flight of the P-8A Poseidon and all things related to transition

[CommodoreMid]

P-8's participating in the search SW of Australia? Think I heard reports that they were… Do they bring anything to the fight beyond that of the mighty "War Pigs"? Range, endurance, refueling capability, TOS, sensors, etc. ?

I already get that there aren't any bunks for the sweaty, stinky NFOs or enlisted folks.

Range, yes, though depends on what you want in terms of ONSTA distance/endurance. Total flight time we've been getting is comparable, though we can get ONSTA faster. No refueling yet if you had bothered to read the previous posts. Camera is better, radar is comparable, maybe better though hard to say at this point.

 

[e6bflyer]

Just the drivers? The rest of the crew can go…what? Red Bull?

Touche'. NFO's are people too (sort of). I should have said "the crew". I would, however, say that I would much prefer to have my front end crew well rested if bunk space were limited.

Most of our back end crew will rotate out and sleep in open seats around the aircraft on longer flights. The bunks are almost exclusively used by pilots and flight engineers. No real reason for that, just the way it is.

 

[e6bflyer]

Oil consumption is the big limiting factor for when we get inflight refueling eventually. On the personnel level, even beyond the physical demands of such long on station times, I think CPRG and Big Navy will have to take a better look at squadron manning plans if They decide we should refuel all the time. Supporting a multi-day flap will be an interesting proposal.

We have a 72 hour limit on our engines for oil consumption. That being said, I couldn't imagine a flight over 18 hours or so. The lav would fill up, the crew would get batshit crazy, and fatigue would become a MAJOR issue for everyone on board.

Air refueling will really extend the range of the P-8, but you are correct that it will bring a myriad of other consequences. Manning, crew rest, pilot currency, and limited tanker support (no organic tanking, just like us) are a few that come to mind.
The good thing is that you come from a community that is used to long flights and the issues associated with them.

 

[e6bflyer]

I agree with the beds, but to be fair there is enough room to set up a couple air mattresses. That being said, the galley is great and there's a flushing toilet.

Yep, that is a hell of an airplane. I liked the air mattress spot. That was pretty sweet. I also like that there is a lot of room for activities in the tube, although I am sure the Navy will eventually fill it all up just like the P-3 and E-6. We have seen our crew rest area shrink from a massive 2 room suite with airline style bunks to a half compartment with 4 seats and a door that won't let you access half the galley. Mission equipment has filled the rest over the years.

 

[xj220]

The only reason why I don't see that happening is weight. We have to carry sonobuoys and weapons and that adds up quickly. That being said, I wouldn't rule anything out.

 

[e6bflyer]

The only reason why I don't see that happening is weight. We have to carry sonobuoys and weapons and that adds up quickly. That being said, I wouldn't rule anything out.

Didn't really think about that XJ. We don't carry any expendables, so our mission weights don't really vary outside of fuel loads, which can be almost half of our weight.
I would have said the same thing about us, but NAVAIR keeps finding ways to reduce weight, mainly by taking out redundancies and obsolete equipment, and then cramming in more stuff. I don't know how much "fudge room" there is in the 737 airframe. When our aircraft went into the B modification, they magically increased our max zero fuel weight from 180k to 190k, I assume by sprinkling fairy dust all over everything.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Being a FO and therefore not involved in the intricacies of fuel planning, compared to the P-3, you have to gnat's ass everything in this plane, especially when going heavy. When loading up the plane with people/bags/parts/gear to go on deployment, you can't just throw anything in available space like we did in the P-3. Tactically speaking, you have to be a lot more cognizant of how you're positioning the aircraft and your flight profiles to maximize your on station effectiveness. Long story short, weight in this plane is a big deal.

 

[Flash]

The "rest" of the crew is usually sleeping/watching a movie/playing a game/eating in the galley, etc on transits to station. I never really "worried" about them getting adequate rest, as a Mission Commander, I was more concerned with the fatigue of the pilots and FEs in the flight station, followed by "limited" concern for the NAV and Radar Operator (SS3) when terrain/nav/wx were involved.

On my first deployment we had a series of 9.0's that took off at 0200 or 0300 local and I was the only sucker on the crew that had to stay up for the whole damn flight, I hated that. Trying to go to the head before we got on station was like running an obstacle course with bodies covering the floor of the tube.

 

[Brett327]

running an obstacle course with bodies covering the floor of the tube.

I've been in that P-3. I was always comfortable in my sleeping bag lying next to my P-chuttes. Had a hammock and used it a few times, but it was more of a novelty than a practical napping solution.

 

[statesman]

The only reason why I don't see that happening is weight. We have to carry sonobuoys and weapons and that adds up quickly. That being said, I wouldn't rule anything out.

P-8 has plenty of extra room for ZFW. Max GW requires some trade offs (fuel for bouys, etc.)

AtA refuel is for one purpose only. I don't see it extending on station times during ASW or extending on station times all that much period. MPRA may change its collective mind about that, but getting refuel support from the Air Force is going to be a lot more difficult when those requests are not on missions for which refuel is currently purposed. Refuel is a requirement for weight in certain mission configurations. Last I heard it will stay that way.

 

[Chachi]

One thing is for sure, the P-8 will never beat the pilot rack in the back of the P-3... one of the best places around to take a nap.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Even as an NFO who doesn't get to take a nap I will say that's true. Unless you're my height (midget) then the crew rest seats are not long enough for someone to take a good nap.

 

[707guy]

Interesting pics posted on NAVAIR's Facebook page:


NAVAIR text - "The P-8A Poseidon Integrated Test Team (ITT) conducts air-to-air refueling (AAR) ground testing with the aircraft at a level pitch (left) and flight pitch (right) to simulate the various stages of AAR. The team successfully completed the seven-day event May 11 at a Boeing facility in Seattle, Washington.

The series of tests will mitigate risks associated with the in-flight AAR demonstration, which is slated for 2016. The P-8A will deploy with the AAR capability within the next two years, and will use the flying boom, or Air Force style, method of refueling. (Photos courtesy of Boeing)"

 

[MAKE VAPES]

I wonder... Any thoughts on modifying a 737 to serve as a CVN "organic" tanker? Having Omega follow us around is nice and all, but I see 75K#+? of fuel in this one, and I think mission and recovery tanker 'round the world... without having our tankers pulled at zoomie whim to get skin in the game. We lost half our sorties to get 2 strike eagles up the boulevard early in OEF... I'm sure it wasn't the last time. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/11/the-kabul-ki-dance/302610/

 

[Gatordev]

I wonder... Any thoughts on modifying a 737 to serve as a CVN "organic" tanker? Having Omega follow us around is nice and all, but I see 75K#+? of fuel in this one, and I think mission and recovery tanker 'round the world... without having our tankers pulled at zoomie whim to get skin in the game.

Interesting. I would have thought Omega would have more gas to pass. Not so? And if it can be answered, do they do operational support or just training support?