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Are individual awards getting watered down (ie a NAM for a Det)?

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Interesting thread. I think the answer is yes. Since mid-50's, some 56 years, I have been"at it",

I arrived in the Nav too late, for the Korean era GeDunk Award (National Defense), the cutoff being a few weeks before I arrived. Think the NAM arrived on the scene early 1960's, maybe 1961. My first medal was the Good Conduct at 4 years. It was peacetime, and medals did not flow freely. As I recall, I was a Senior Chief with nine years active service when I received my second medal, the GeeDunk ribbon, soon thereafter the Vietnam Cross Of Galantry (or some such) and thereafter a host of VietNam era medals, several "unit" awards and four other personal awards, one them the including now infamous NAM, Reflecting, I was Expert Marksman in both rifle and pistol, never had a ribbon, not sure nor care why.

In that first 8 years, I spent most of my time on numerous, almost constant special operations detachments. Received 4.0 performance evals across the board, too many commendation/appreciation letters to count. I loved what I was doing and the Navy loved how I was doing it. No medals nor ribbons, save that tattered and frayed GCM. I do remember some of the SpecOps missions our OIC spend a huge amount of time writing up his recommendation for medals (Legion of Merit) seemed to be the norm for the Officer Corps, swift kick in the behind for the enlisted pukes.

In the final anslysis, who really cares. Medals served Sen John Kerry well, on several occasions, but they were not a game changer.:icon_tong

I salute your extensive service. And I both understand and agree with your perspective on medals. It was not only a lack of awards for the "enlisted pukes." If you were a wingman, and not a flight lead, you didn't see many either. And even our flight leads back in the day didn't get that many either.

Our airwing on an 11-month cruise logged the most days in combat over Vietnam ever. Much of that time was over North Vietnam, and 'downtown'. But our CAG believed that was the job we were paid to do – earning our $60 monthly combat pay – and rarely deserved a medal.

Flying against the most heavily defended targets – Than Hoa, Vinh, Haiphong, and Hanoi – our entire squadron only received 2 DFCs. Compare that to the Air Force who handed out DFCs to everyone, as an end-of-tour kiss goodbye.

While downing a MiG was still an automatic Silver Star, other medals were scarce. While a flight lead could get an individual action Air Medal occasionally for something unusual, a wingman could usually hope for no more than points toward a Strike/Flight Air Medal. A successful strike on Hanoi, with SAMS, AAA, and taking some airwing losses might get you an NCM w/V.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, I had a friend from HAL-3 who had more chest candy as a LT than anyone I ever knew. (All earned, too.) But he refused to wear them, thinking they were overkill. Sometimes, he would only wear the top row... all with stars, but that was rare.

But like you Chief, who really cares in the final analysis. Medals and 25 cents (now $3 at Starbucks) will get you a cup of coffee. Nevertheless, those who served together will always know and remember. BZ
 

PropStop

Kool-Aid free since 2001.
pilot
Contributor
Medals only impress people who don't know - most civilians. Mom's like 'em too I suppose.

Chief, Catmando, I think if I ran into you at a bar...I could figure out your contributions sans viewing your chest candy.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think part of the problem with NAMs is that, IIRC, each CO is authorized so many to award on his own. It would seem to me that different skippers are going to have different criteria for when to give those out.

Skippers can award as many NAMs as they like. There is no quota. Say what you will about awards becoming watered down (and I don't disagree). It's a slippery slope and the norm is the norm, so there's no going back to the way it was without upsetting the apple cart, so there you go.

Brett
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Skippers can award as many NAMs as they like. There is no quota. Say what you will about awards becoming watered down (and I don't disagree). It's a slippery slope and the norm is the norm, so there's no going back to the way it was without upsetting the apple cart, so there you go.

Brett

Here's a conversation between a Skipper and an Airboss I had related to me once:
Skipper: I don't like inflating awards. I only give so many NAMs.
Airboss: When I was Skipper I gave as many awards as I could. That's why my sailors got promoted over yours.

Whatever you might think about award inflation, the truth of the matter is that it's tied to your sailors advancement and shorting them on awards only hurts them when competing with their peers.

As for Os, a lack of an EOT award is a pretty clear indicator that said individual was AFU. Basically the cherry on the sundae that would be said AFU individuals lack of competitive fitreps and orders.
 

ChunksJR

Retired.
pilot
Contributor
As for Os, a lack of an EOT award is a pretty clear indicator that said individual was AFU. Basically the cherry on the sundae that would be said AFU individuals lack of competitive fitreps and orders.

Seems like a newbie question, but what about abbreviated tours? I'm thinking of putting in for a NAM for my 10 months at the Safety Center ("bonus" tour while awaiting my DH fate.) I feel dirty doing so, but the "standard" EOT for LCDRs is a COM.

Funny thing about this, however, is that I'd be more proud of this NAM than ANY of my other 3 (2 of which I refuse to acknowledge as "meritorious"). In a separate note, if you EVER have a chance to go to the Safety Center...go. Amazing tour.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The gouge I've heard from the tank is that personal awards are so far down the list of tie-breakers, that people really shouldn't worry about them at all.
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Seems like a newbie question, but what about abbreviated tours? I'm thinking of putting in for a NAM for my 10 months at the Safety Center ("bonus" tour while awaiting my DH fate.) I feel dirty doing so, but the "standard" EOT for LCDRs is a COM.

Funny thing about this, however, is that I'd be more proud of this NAM than ANY of my other 3 (2 of which I refuse to acknowledge as "meritorious"). In a separate note, if you EVER have a chance to go to the Safety Center...go. Amazing tour.
Holy resurrected thread, batman! Somebody actually used the "search" function. BZ, Chunks!
But I sadly can't answer your question accurately. Forum?
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Is 'putting in' for your own awards a common thing these days? I'm not knockin' it, just curious. The only time I ever heard of that being done, was LT John Kerry & his multi-PHs, but I've been retired for a looong time and things change.:confused:
BzB
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Yeah. I've been instructed to write all but one of my awards.

COM- Wrote as JCOM, changed to COM.
4x Air Medals - Had to write all. 3 were strike flight, so easy template

I believe my NAM for the King Kat was written by an AW Member who was CSO at the time.

I was told to write up, and I quote the XO "Make up some bullshit that can work as a COM or NAM depending on if the Skipper wants to bring it to CAG or not that covers your whole career or tour"

I told the XO, that if they could not even think of an event that is medal worthy over my career that I was not already awarded one for, why am I getting one?

Yes, the "standard" from what I had seen in 12 years, was that you write your own awards, save in rare circumstances. My NAM for the King Kat was a "Suprise" medal given to me at quarters at the RAG (and then mocked by I-NFOs for making it, in typical VT-120 form) and out of the ones I was awarded, it's the one I'm the most proud of. Did I do "greater service" to the nation when I did SAR during JTF Katrina? Probably.

But the leaders in Kingsville gave a shit enough about something that a random LT did that was above/beyond and out of the norm that they wrote the medal and kept it a suprise.

The KingKat NAM was the only EOT medal I ever recieved. I was told to write up a NAM for HSL land, but was told "LTJGs don't get/leave with COMs normally, so you don't need an EOT"
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Seems like a newbie question, but what about abbreviated tours? I'm thinking of putting in for a NAM for my 10 months at the Safety Center ("bonus" tour while awaiting my DH fate.) I feel dirty doing so, but the "standard" EOT for LCDRs is a COM.

Funny thing about this, however, is that I'd be more proud of this NAM than ANY of my other 3 (2 of which I refuse to acknowledge as "meritorious"). In a separate note, if you EVER have a chance to go to the Safety Center...go. Amazing tour.
Put in for an NC and let someone else downgrade it. You're doing LCDR work, get the LCDR credit.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Is 'putting in' for your own awards a common thing these days? I'm not knockin' it, just curious. The only time I ever heard of that being done, was LT John Kerry & his multi-PHs, but I've been retired for a looong time and things change.:confused:
BzB
I've only seen it for EOTs when you generally know you're getting an award. As the member I have easier access to all my fitreps and can generate an EOT in an hour. For specific action awards I've always written the award for the member or had the chief write one up for the sailors. I figure specific action awards are supposed to be a "surprise" while EOTs shouldnt.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I've only seen it for EOTs when you generally know you're getting an award. As the member I have easier access to all my fitreps and can generate an EOT in an hour. For specific action awards I've always written the award for the member or had the chief write one up for the sailors. I figure specific action awards are supposed to be a "surprise" while EOTs shouldnt.

That makes sense, the potential EOT recipient knows better than anyone, what he/she has accomplished during the tour.

Reminds me of a great CO I had when I was a junior O-4. Preparing for his upcoming CoC departing fitness reports, he called me in and told me to write up my own report, including narratives, unheard of back in that era. Seeing my jaw drop, he said, "don't worry...I trust your integrity". Although feeling uncomfortable, I did so as honestly as I could.

Later, at my individual FitRep debrief, I was stunned that he had raised some of the grades, and improved the narratives. Sensing my surprise, he noted "I've had very few FitReps that I haven't had to improve somewhat, we tend to be harder on ourselves than on others"! This fine 'Skipper' retired as a VADM DCNO (Air).:)
BzB
 

ChunksJR

Retired.
pilot
Contributor
Put in for an NC and let someone else downgrade it. You're doing LCDR work, get the LCDR credit.

Yeah, that's a little too large of a jump in logic for me...the only reason I'm here, doing that LCDR work is because I couldn't manage to punch an EP out of my first tour resulting in FOS for DH last year...I cannot equate 10 months to a full 3 years of work.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Yeah, that's a little too large of a jump in logic for me...the only reason I'm here, doing that LCDR work is because I couldn't manage to punch an EP out of my first tour resulting in FOS for DH last year...I cannot equate 10 months to a full 3 years of work.
What does your boss think? As BzB said, we're often harder on ourselves. If your boss thinks your work is worthy of a X, then write up an X.

Why your there should have no bearing on the award. If you've done good work while there, that's all that should matter. Shit, coming to pax for the OAMCM NATOPS conference is enoug in my book!
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Agree about the NAM. I see sailors do a decent job on a 6 month easy peasy USNS boat det get a NAM, but I work for 3 years and get one out the door? Sorta unfair.

Previous desert HACs who did nothing but take over a bullshit det job and hope they didn't actually have to do anything for 6 months got an AAM, but me and my generation of HACs CLOSED down the det and had to unfuck all the lapses that previous generations ignored and passed the buck on, and JOs no longer get an award from det or the skipper threatens NO EOT award? Fuck me. DHs swear it won't matter and no one will care, meanwhile they put themselves in for Bronze stars for being OIC of a "combat det". Fuck that.

Regardless, I went from a pizza stain to 4 full rows after 3 years, including multiple MUCs (army, CG)s, ICM, air medal, Overseas, sea service, yadda yadda, and for the most part, they all seem have been watered down to "participation" awards. The only one I've had to be individually "put in for" is the air medal and the ICM was an in-house pg 13. Whoopty do. If I wanted chest candy, I'd have become an african general. All I care about is flight time.
 
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