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Deployment video causing heat for Enterprise Skipper

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CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The thing that just troubles me is relieving him now as opposed to when the videos were made. What he did was stupid and I don't think I'd necessarily have a problem with him being relieved for them at the time, or even just reprimanded, since, as A-4s said, I don't think it's really the place for the Big XO to be making something like this. I have to throw a giant BS flag when he says and his superiors say that they weren't aware of them. They were on friggin site TV! It just reeks of hypocrisy and self-preservation of our upper leadership. That's what troubles me.
 

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
Sorry ... in the "good ol' Navy", no CO/XO in my experience would have been caught dead making or participating in a similar 'skit' ... it just wasn't done. ESPECIALLY the CO/XO of the ship -- they were 'gods' (small 'g') and they were wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay head & shoulders above participation or sanctioning a similar demonstration.

People let off steam -- in many ways, but nothing like this.

Soooooooo .... I guess this entire exercise is symptomatic of the mindset of some (many?) in the "not-so-good 'NEW' Navy" ... ??? All in the interest of 'letting off steam', of course ... :)

I still think it was below average ...

And don't leave a trail to put yourself on report, in any case ...

They might not have participated in skits, but getting hammered, hookers, strippers, etc. certainly wasn't foreign to them. I would say that everyone "behaved worse", including COs and XOs.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I would say that everyone "behaved worse", including COs and XOs.

I don't believe the good CAPT should have been relieved four years "after the fact", but I push the BS alarm on the above statement! At least in my era ('58-'74).
BzB
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
You guys have two (2) choices:

Either you learn to go along, get along w/ a PC world in the military, quit bitching & complaining & educate yourselves on how to enjoy eating shit & howling at the moon ... specifically w/in the USN frame of reference ... and it will be to the eternal detriment and destruction of the USN and the combat/warrior ethos ...

Or ... you put YOUR careers at risk, take a stand, and make things right.

Repeat after me ... 'put your careers at risk' ...

Numbers count. YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE if you choose to do so. It's not 'mutiny', boys & girls ... it's about what's 'right'.

If you choose NOT to challenge the PC system ... then quit bitching, become a whore, and shut the fuck up about your temporary lot in life.

See ... ??? It's 'temporary' ...

The moral of the sermon???DO THE RIGHT THING.

Sorry ... in the "good ol' Navy", no CO/XO in my experience would have been caught dead making or participating in a similar 'skit' ... it just wasn't done. ESPECIALLY the CO/XO of the ship -- they were 'gods' (small 'g') and they were wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay head & shoulders above participation or sanctioning a similar demonstration.

People let off steam -- in many ways, but nothing like this.

Soooooooo .... I guess this entire exercise is symptomatic of the mindset of some (many?) in the "not-so-good 'NEW' Navy" ... ??? All in the interest of 'letting off steam', of course ... :)

I still think it was below average ...

And don't leave a trail to put yourself on report, in any case ...


I am just a bit confused by your posts, A4s. A few pages back, you were telling us to fall on our swords and get out to make a statement about this kind of PC-invasion that is killing our military. Now you're saying that COs and XOs of your day would have never done something as silly as what was seen in this video.

I get that you personally think the video was a below average.... but is the XO worth fighting for with our feet, or was it a stupid move that he deserves to be punished for?
 

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
I don't believe the good CAPT should have been relieved four years "after the fact", but I push the BS alarm on the above statement! At least in my era ('58-'74).
BzB

"Everyone" is definitely an exaggeration, but assuming 25% of the stories of what went on on liberty in the PI are true, the basic point about it being common behavior is valid.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Some RUMINT floating around at SailorBob (my emphasis):

I heard a similar rumor that CAPT Honors had recently fired an officer and that the release of the videos could be tied to that event.
I also heard this and that the officer was in charge of the MCs...
Rumor says that he fired an officer very recently from ENT while CO and it appears that this officer had access to the videos and decided to let them loose. Again, just a rumor.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
I am just a bit confused by your posts, A4s. A few pages back, you were telling us to fall on our swords and get out to make a statement about this kind of PC-invasion that is killing our military. Now you're saying that COs and XOs of your day would have never done something as silly as what was seen in this video.

I get that you personally think the video was a below average.... but is the XO worth fighting for with our feet, or was it a stupid move that he deserves to be punished for?
Sometimes it's hard to get a 'point' across when the thoughts are separated by days and it's a 'typing' forum, vice a sit-across-the-table-have-a-beer face to face discussion ...

The 'humor', in my opinion, was juvenile & stupid. NOT 'funny' ... and most CO/XO's in my experience did not do 'stupid humor', no matter what some of my peer group may say. The operative words are: IN MY EXPERIENCE. It is what it is ...

That's all I'm saying here ... but be that as it may ...

The XO's so-called attempt at 'humor' was a significant BA in headwork, in my opinion. BUT: he got away w/ it ... at least for 3-4 years. No one cared. THEN ... people who KNEW about the 'skits' decided to protect themselves in our ever increasing PC climate and made the ENTERPRISE CO walk the plank in what I trust will be a vain attempt to cover THEIR tracks and potential complicity/career-liability.

The way I see it, if you don't like the result of what's happened on the ENTERPRISE and how it relates to your future spot in modern-day NAVY 'culture' -- you have two choices:


1. Suck it up, sell yourself out (and deal w/ being a perpetual 'yes man' -- unless you already ARE one) -- and stay in w/ what passes for senior 'leadership' and learn to live by their ever-changing CYA rules-of-the-road ...
sooner or later ... you will become one of them.

2. If you can't/won't do that -- vote w/ your feet. Get out. You served your country honorably.

For those who don't like my 'walk' option:
You don't 'change' a bureaucratic system from 'inside'. Those of you who think you can are dreamers and you're indulging in wishful thinking. The ONLY way you can 'change' an inertia-bound, self-perpetuating, self-congratulatory system is to hit it right between the eyes w/ a 2 X 4. "We" did that in the late '70s and the military profited from the 'shock' to their system brought about by our decisions to exit, en-mass for what we saw as greener pastures and being our 'own men'. The military did a SIGNIFICANT attitude check/about face in the early '80s and corrected the downward spiral of the post-Vietnam and Carter years, assisted in the rebuilding effort by a pro-military Reagan-era DOD.

I've seen the 'eat your own' methodology in the military (think: years of 'excessive', over the top behavior [humor??] at many, many TAILHOOK gatherings -- and then finally, the bubble burst and the rush was on to CYA-scapegoat) ... and I've seen it in the airlines, believe it or not.

That's just the way it is ...

In my experience ... :)
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
The local news has just reported that the former CO of the Enterprise when CAPT Honors was the XO was removed from his position at JFCOM, and that his Feb 1st retirement is now postponed.
 

SWACQ

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Phrogpilot73 is not in the office today because his wife is having surgery.


Does she know you are posting on AW instead of catering to her every need?

ae99a62b-34a6-f055.jpg


Sent from my HTC EVO using tapatalk.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
EXACTLY. I know some will mourn it as the "good old Navy" dying, but does anyone think this video would have caused any less fallout in the civilian world?

Yeah yeah yeah... we're "warfighters". I got it. Doesn't mean we can completely forego a professional front....

I am like any other Navy pilot... .

This is the third dumbest post you've ever made. It shouldn't matter whether or not this would fly in the civilian world. This is not the civilian world. This is as wrong-headed as saying "all these European nations let homosexuals serve openly." Cool. We're not in Europe.

Keep your "professional front" confined to you slice of rotor-ville - I strongly suspect you are not "like any other Navy pilot" - or maybe you are, which is all the more frightening to me. Its not a matter of the "good old Navy" dying. Its a matter of the "shitty new navy" being run into the ground by a bunch of senior flag officers who are more concerned with being on the perceived "right side of the law" WRT our current administration and its social agendas. Think about the colossal waste of money, time, and talent the navy just subjected itself to by firing ENT CO - mere weeks before it left on deployment.

Fund us. Equip us. Give us clear guidance. Let us break things and kill bad people. Give me a clear deck with good winds. Say thank you. Then leave us the fuck alone.
 

The Chief

Retired
Contributor
Doubtful (Nav wide witchunt). Someone was clearly gunning for the good Captain, and they bagged him. The missive about an expanded "Tailhook ""like" extravaganza is simply a diversion to still the waters. Just my .02c.

How very, very wrong. Neg 2 for that one!
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
This is the third dumbest post you've ever made. It shouldn't matter whether or not this would fly in the civilian world. This is not the civilian world. This is as wrong-headed as saying "all these European nations let homosexuals serve openly." Cool. We're not in Europe.

Keep your "professional front" confined to you slice of rotor-ville - I strongly suspect you are not "like any other Navy pilot" - or maybe you are, which is all the more frightening to me. Its not a matter of the "good old Navy" dying. Its a matter of the "shitty new navy" being run into the ground by a bunch of senior flag officers who are more concerned with being on the perceived "right side of the law" WRT our current administration and its social agendas. Think about the colossal waste of money, time, and talent the navy just subjected itself to by firing ENT CO - mere weeks before it left on deployment.

Fund us. Equip us. Give us clear guidance. Let us break things and kill bad people. Give me a clear deck with good winds. Say thank you. Then leave us the fuck alone.

Well they're about to be able to, so I'm sure you'll find a way to deal... or you can always take a stand and go out and beat up a couple of queers. I don't think the argument that other nations do it so we should is the best argument. I think the fact that not letting gays serve, while not exactly the same thing, is certainly akin to not letting Jews or Blacks serve. Facepalm all you want, but yeah I said that.

I'm not arguing that the Captain is a bad guy. It's obvious based on his record that he was well liked and certainly did enough of the right things to get command of a Carrier. I'm simply saying that based on this fallout, he made a bad choice with the video. I ALSO agree with folks like A4s (after clarifying their stance) who made it clear they AGREE that the video was stupid, but that it is suspicious that he's only being skewered for it years after the fact.

There are things about the Navy that are great, and I can't imagine holding a civilian job. But there are also things that are pretty childish about Squadron life, too. How many other places could you work and go out with people and get hammered drunk every weekend like a bunch of frat guys. Sort of gets a bit ridiculous when you're on the downhill to 30.

We may be the military, and should be able to let our hair down. But Officers, especially high ranking ones, are perceived as austere, professional example-setting leaders... not pejorative-slinging drunken frat boys. At some point, you retire the beer bong and fart jokes and put on a more professional face.

Call it stupid all you want, but I don't think any debate team would call that a "good argument". People of differing opinions argue amicably as adults. They don't resort to name-calling and chest-beating.

Anyway, I think we're just speaking back and forth like the talking heads do and we're just repeating ourselves. I'm sure we can agree to disagree. Sorry for ruining your Navy. I'll go ahead and try to keep my bullshit confined to "my slice of rotor-ville".
 
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