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Pitching Deck Video

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Van

The Shipmate formerly known as AT2.
Carrier was a great documentary...

Agreed. For anyone that wants to know what life on the boat is like (from more than one perspective too) this is a good indicator. I'd also say it would be beneficial for every newly minted Ens/2ndLT to watch. The things that people dealt with during that time are things that we all will have to deal with in some way or another on deployment. Just because it happened to an E-4 in the documentary doesn't mean it won't happen to you and even if it doesn't, you could be that guys supervisor, Div-O, best friend, etc. It's not all fun and games and port visits. Although, they did have plenty of it on their cruise!
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Agreed. For anyone that wants to know what life on the boat is like (from more than one perspective too) this is a good indicator. I'd also say it would be beneficial for every newly minted Ens/2ndLT to watch. The things that people dealt with during that time are things that we all will have to deal with in some way or another on deployment. Just because it happened to an E-4 in the documentary doesn't mean it won't happen to you and even if it doesn't, you could be that guys supervisor, Div-O, best friend, etc. It's not all fun and games and port visits. Although, they did have plenty of it on their cruise!

Yeah, but wouldn't that really only apply to people who are going to a carrier? I would be a bit surprised if life aboard a carrier is very similar to a desert det, small-boy det or USNS det.
 

Van

The Shipmate formerly known as AT2.
Yeah, but wouldn't that really only apply to people who are going to a carrier? I would be a bit surprised if life aboard a carrier is very similar to a desert det, small-boy det or USNS det.

Well, first I'd want to know if you've seen the series. It's about a lot more than just being on a carrier. I wasn't talking about carrier specific issues as much as life-on-deployment issues. Missing your family, dealing with girlfriends, and all those other personal issues AND how people deal with them, then perform on the job is what I'm talking about. Those kinds of things are common among any type of deployment and the documentary did a good job (in my opion) of showing those kinds of things. It shouldn't be hard to transpose that from a "carrier" deployment to any other type.
 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
How common is it for a CO to pull a nugget, or any other aircrew for that matter, from a flight because they felt the pilot's skills weren’t up to the task.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
How common is it for a CO to pull a nugget, or any other aircrew for that matter, from a flight because they felt the pilot's skills weren’t up to the task.

Depending on the mission, I've seen it happen A LOT. Selective scheduling happens for every type of aircraft and mission in the Navy. Sometimes the CO wants to have a more expirienced crew man an aircraft for an important mission or one that may be more complex. Nothing against the younger pilot but the CO wants an old-hand involved because not every mission goes as planned.
 

rondebmar

Ron "Banty" Marron
pilot
Contributor
Depending on the mission, I've seen it happen A LOT. Selective scheduling happens for every type of aircraft and mission in the Navy. Sometimes the CO wants to have a more expirienced crew man an aircraft for an important mission or one that may be more complex. Nothing against the younger pilot but the CO wants an old-hand involved because not every mission goes as planned.

Whew!! Vitals are very slowly returning to normal. Has USN changed this much??

On my first tour (Apr 1963 to Oct 1966), completed three 6-7 month cruises, as well as a handful of shorter ones (466 traps)...Med and SE Asia...flying props (Spads) and jets (Scooters)...in peacetime and wartime...good wx and bad...and have never observed a case of "selective scheduling" during that period! Ever hear of QRA? (IIRC, Ensign Nuggets pulled that duty as often as O-4 Dept heads.) Flight schedule published in the evening...and flown as scheduled the following day.

Once observed a Spad stall/spin/crash immediately after angled "deck run"...next (and last) guy in line was launched within seconds. (This in peacetime.)

What happens if flight or section leader goes down on deck account maintenance...or goes Nordo during a mission? Wingman Nugget or not, the mission proceeds...the FNG gets the chance to lead!!
icon6.gif


Banty out...(but awaiting remarks from A4s/BusyBee604/others...)
 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Depending on the mission, I've seen it happen A LOT. Selective scheduling happens for every type of aircraft and mission in the Navy. Sometimes the CO wants to have a more expirienced crew man an aircraft for an important mission or one that may be more complex. Nothing against the younger pilot but the CO wants an old-hand involved because not every mission goes as planned.

That wasn't selective scheduling. She was on the Flight Deck with one foot on the boarding ladder.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
Well, first I'd want to know if you've seen the series. It's about a lot more than just being on a carrier. I wasn't talking about carrier specific issues as much as life-on-deployment issues. Missing your family, dealing with girlfriends, and all those other personal issues AND how people deal with them, then perform on the job is what I'm talking about. Those kinds of things are common among any type of deployment and the documentary did a good job (in my opion) of showing those kinds of things. It shouldn't be hard to transpose that from a "carrier" deployment to any other type.

Two things - first Van, you gotta realize that this was just another opportunity for ottoirritate to try to drive a wedge between communities. You hit the nail on the head - while it was a cheesy production (and they all are) it did highlight a lot of the difficulties of BEING AWAY FROM HOME, regardless of where you are.

Second thing - Banty - we have become quite the risk averse organization these days. The good thing is that we're killing fewer people - the bad news is that everyone is so damned afraid to make a mistake that it makes me wonder if we're even half as "good" as the pilots from a generation ago (make up your own definition of "good"). That being said, there was no good reason for anyone in the airwing to be flying that night (spoken from the mouth of the cag paddles waving that train wreck) - peacetime towards the end of cruise and on the way home. This is probably where A4's jumps in and tells me I'm a wimp :) I'll take it from him :)

trying not to trip while stepping off soap box.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Whew!! Vitals are very slowly returning to normal. Has USN changed this much??


Please allow me to expand upon my previous post.

For the first night of OIF, there were very few nuggets on the first strike off HST into Iraq. On Day 2, the nuggets started flying their share. Were they capable? I can only guess that their CO's thought so, but for the first strike, leadership wanted more senior folks. So I would say that strike was 'selectively scheduled'.

Second point is I've seen a few 'HAC Buts' in my time. These are guys who can fly as a Helo Aircraft Commander BUT with caveats. For example only with an H2P, only on a Plane Guard hop, only during daylight flights. I'm sure this is not a trend that started in the 90's when I reached the fleet. I can't tell you when it started but I have seen it first hand in 4 squadrons and heard of it happening in almost every HS squadron in the fleet. When you have some guys who can only sign for the aircraft with some significant restrictions, that is by definition selectively scheduled.

I can't state as fact that other communities/platforms have had pilots who were restricted by the front office from flying certain events or missions, but I would find it difficult to believe that only HS squadrons have had this practice. If I were a betting man, I would wager that there's been at least one pilot that got a section lead qual but was never scheduled as a section lead.

Finally, some missions tend to get more senior personnel involved. A dedicated CSAR package tends to have more O-5's and O-4's in it than your typical strike package. The CSAR package that CAG-8 launched for EBRO-33 (French Mirage) in 95 was an example. DCAG was in the air as well as at least 5 other CO/XO's from the Airwing, in addition to the HS Skipper in the lead helo. A much high percentage of senior officers than the ATO strikes into Former Yugo had at the same time.

The CSAR Alerts CAG 3 maintained during the opening of OIF always had good smatterings of CO/XO's and O-4's on the roster. Can junior folks do the mission; of course they can, but in my four 6+ month deployments and multiple other at-sea periods I've been involved in a few missions where squadrons were encouraged to schedule more senior personnel for various reasons.

I'm not saying it's good, not saying it's bad, I'm just saying I've seen it happen many times.

 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Interesting thread. Back in the day, I have seen a little of both, although my overall experience is much closer to Banty's, where everyone had a turn in the barrel regardless of rank or experience. However...

Our F-4 squadron and our sister F-4 squadron operated on two different philosophies. While our Skipper (and me as his wingman) and XO naturally got all the heavy "downtown" missions, everyone else in our squadron still had their equal turns in the big Alpha Strikes. But our sister squadron had only a few – mostly all 2nd tour guys who they would allow to go "downtown." It caused a lot of bitterness amongst their JOs. (BTW, our success rates, and loss rates were equal, but morale differed greatly. Of course they got some MiGs and we didn't... because of perfect timing, rather than talent.)

I have also seen when Cold War Soviet Bears were enroute, a CO or XO would sometimes come out and relieve the manned and active "alert 5". (picture jaws tightening)

Then I have seen, not by intention, a group of pilots become the "night team." Only because of minimal flying in blue water ops, and the difficulty of keeping everyone night qualified. (I hardly flew more than a few hours in daylight for a couple months. :( )

Intelligent scheduling is one thing to be debated, but relieving a crew on the flight-deck after man-up (or whatever they call it these days) really sucks in my book.

PS: I also agree that no one should have been flying that night... unless there was an exigent mission to prosecute. And although I have seen flight ops on (smaller) decks pitching even worse, it was during the day and never at night from my experience, even during wartime. But I also know some who no longer live because a CAG in another airwing pressed it in peacetime heavy wx long ago, just to prove he could.... and at great cost. :icon_rage
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
well...I saw the skipper put that Hornet on the deck first try. If I was an NFO and I had to pick between that guy and LT Can't See Over the Glareshield...I'll take the skipper any day.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I've heard it refered to as a "Commander's Moon", a long time ago.

I think I last heard that about a week ago. (And about four weeks before that time...) :)

Edit: my Marine friends call them "field grade" nights.
 
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