Terminology Questions

[Delta7]

Hello AW members,

Been away for a while (trying to pay the bills).

I'm reviewing a novel for another author and would like some help on three things in his novel that I thought were inaccurate. Before calling him on the problems, I thought someone here could keep me honest on the following Naval Aviation-related terms/assertions (after all, as many of you have pointed out, I’m just an AF puke!):

1. Airdale

This author uses this term several times in his novel, and I think he's got it wrong. “Airdale” is used several times by naval aviators (two carrier-based F-35 pilots in the near future) and other carrier crewmembers while referring to pilots assigned to the carrier.

I would have thought that the term is not often used any more, and when it is, as a slightly pejorative term a “black shoe” might use when talking about a “brown shoe.” That is, it would be used tongue-in-cheek, and/or while ribbing a pilot.

I’ve already been in a few “furballs” in this forum over the meaning of “fighter pilot” and other terms in our different service communities, so I wanted to make sure I had it right.

2. Rank of a CAG.

In the novel, the CAG is an O-5. I thought nearly all CAGs were O-6s.

Are there that many O-5 CAGs out in the fleet to consider this reasonable/believable?

3. Weapons Tight

To my knowledge, the author got it bass-akwards and that “weapons tight” is the opposite of “Cleared Hot” in all aviation communities… and if it ain’t, well, that sure is a disturbing thing in today’s joint environment.

Interestingly, I just checked my trusty (and old… 25 SEP 1987 version) Mission Employment Tactics: Fighter Fundamentals, F-111 (TACM/PACAFM/USAFEM 3-3) for the first time in many a year, and can’t find “Weapons Tight” in the Glossary or Operational Brevity Words sections.

Thanks very much,
John

PS. In case anyone’s interested, I’ve now sold 225 copies of my novel (not exactly NYT Best Seller territory), and my Google ads show up on AW more than any other Internet location save two. Thanks for clicking!

 

[Gatordev]

It was always my understanding that "Weapons Tight" is a posture, not a condition. You can be weapons tight, and still be "cleared hot" or even "...maintain terminal control of your weapons."

 

[Pugs]

All CAG's these day's are Captains (since the mid-eighties IIRC)

A blackshoe may call an Aviator an Airdale, I would never, nor have I ever heard, an Aviator call another Aviator an Airdale.

 

[Bevo16]

All CAG's these day's are Captains (since the mid-eighties IIRC)

Or a USMC Colonel.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1566695/posts

 

[phrogpilot73]

I thought Weapons Postures were numbered, and Weapons Control Orders were Tight, etc... It's been a while though.

Anyhoo:

Weapons Hold: Engage only in Self Defense
Weapons Tight: Engage targets that are positively identified as hostile
Weapons Free: Engage targets that are not positively identified as friendly

 

[Pags]

I was always under the impression that it was conditions that were numbered, like these M9 numbers I just googled:

"Condition 4- Magazine removed, slide forward, chamber empty, and safety on. Condition3- Magazine inserted, slide forward, chamber empty, and safety on.
Condition 2- Does not apply to the M9 service pistol.
Condition 1- Magazine inserted, slide forward, round in chamber, hammer down,
and safety on."

And the only time I've ever been referred to as an Airdale was by my grandmother (grandfather was an steam plant engineering officer on Essex CVs).

 

[Pugs]

Or a USMC Colonel.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1566695/posts

In my best ""Great Karnak" voice "I did not know that" interesting.

 

[A4sForever]

All CAG's these day's are Captains (since the mid-eighties IIRC)...

No shit??? How does that "fly" w/ the CO of the ship being an O-6 ???

I know it "works" ... it's just that it may have worked "easier" when the CAG was an O-5 ...

 

[Mumbles]

^but they would have been post-Skipper tour frocked O-5s???
And...It probably goes over as well as the Chief Engineer also being an O-6.

 

[abracadabra11]

I thought Weapons Postures were numbered, and Weapons Control Orders were Tight, etc... It's been a while though.

Anyhoo:

Weapons Hold: Engage only in Self Defense
Weapons Tight: Engage targets that are positively identified as hostile
Weapons Free: Engage targets that are not positively identified as friendly

That's what we were taught in the strike ground school and flights.

 

[Bevo16]

I was fortunate to be in CAG-9 when Colonel Yurovich was there. I was at his change of command ceremony on the Midway (and being the PAO nugget, planned the party at the I-Bar after the official ceremony). He was a great officer and leader.

A-4's, CAG and D-CAG are both 0-6's. Along with the DESRON commander, and an 0-6 Sub guy (never had to deal with him, but saw him in the P-way all the time). Our air boss was an 0-6 select and put it on while on cruise. The Chief Engineer on the Stennis was an 0-5, but that may be more the exception than the rule.

 

[A4sForever]

...CAG and D-CAG are both 0-6's. Along with the DESRON commander, and an 0-6 Sub guy.... Our air boss was an 0-6 select and put it on while on cruise.... Chief Engineer on the Stennis was an 0-5...

*sigh* .... It was simpler in the ol' days ... unless the Admiral was aboard ... as there was only ONE O-6 onboard -- the CO of the BOAT.

But then there were a whole bunch of ship's company O-5's of varying seniority and presence ... some to be ignored, others not to be trifled with ... the BOSS would have been one of the latter.

 

[Catmando]

No shit??? How does that "fly" w/ the CO of the ship being an O-6 ???
I know it "works" ... it's just that it may have worked "easier" when the CAG was an O-5 ...

I'm surprised too. Looks "top-heavy" to me.

Perhaps too many heavies for too few billets.

 

[Bevo16]

There is pretty much ALWAYS an Admiral on board these days. The only time he wasn't there was for CQ.

There was never any conflict that was visible to any of us. The ship's CO and XO flew with all of the baby-hornet squadrons. DESRON was a regular in our ready room, because he always needed a ride to one of his boats. The "Big 3" were often together on site TV to shake their collective fingers at us before port calls to tell us to stay out of trouble.

 

[kmac]

*sigh* .... It was simpler in the ol' days ... unless the Admiral was aboard ... as there was only ONE O-6 onboard -- the CO of the BOAT.

But then there were a whole bunch of ship's company O-5's of varying seniority and presence ... some to be ignored, others not to be trifled with ... the BOSS would have been one of the latter.

It seems to me that it would work better with both the air wing and the ship having equal representation to the admiral. And besides, it's not like the O-7 leaves much anyway. If he did, I would have had to deliver a lot less USA Todays while underway!