Vance for Primary??

[UMichfly]

That was mostly a joke gents. My onwing was so ahead of me in the airplane that he would have called me out for it the minute I thought about reaching for the VHF. I'm still a firm believer in shenanigans where shenanigans are due (keeping in mind safety and all that...in advance of the inevitable comments).

 

[FLY_USMC]

I flew the T-37, it had no gps, no AOA, and I was GQ when it came to flying a TACAN approach because that was essentially our bread and butter. We did have an ILS, but I'd say we trained to the TACAN approach more. I learned more about a TACAN approach procedurely in Primary than was ever tought/briefed/expected anywhere else I've been, and not because they already assumed I knew it. A PAR/ASR approach is so easy it should be one of the least things they ever show you, I did my only one in Primary into Carswell JRB in Fort Worth, weather was 400-1.5, thunderstorm had just past and were expected to roll through again in about 35 minutes. We did a touch-n-go and went over to Alliance, radar vectors for the ILS, Alliance was calling like 400-2, we broke out much much lower. All while my IP had gotten a bad case of the leans when we went into the goo over College Station, and this was all at night. This is favorite story to tell from Primary, it has more but this is the quick version. Point. AOA and PAR approached are not difficult and taught ad nauseum.....my new favorite word...in Advanced anyways. I have a Master's Degree....I feel....in how to fly AOA, and I still suck.

 

[HH-60H]

I flew the T-37, it had no gps, no AOA, and I was GQ when it came to flying a TACAN approach because that was essentially our bread and butter.

I thought the T-37 had VOR/DME not TACAN.

 

[FLY_USMC]

I thought the T-37 had VOR/DME not TACAN.

I flew the T-37, it had no GPS, no AOA, and a VOR/DME. I got some really good briefs about a TACAN approach, but all we really flew were VOR/DME approaches

 

[HH-60H]

I flew the T-37, it had no GPS, no AOA, and a VOR/DME. I got some really good briefs about a TACAN approach, but all we really flew were VOR/DME approaches

I did too, it just seemed you were implying it had a TACAN.

 

[BACONATOR]

I did too, it just seemed you were implying it had a TACAN.

For all intents and purposes, flying the plane, a VOR/DME is functionally identical to TACAN, no? (Besides of course cone of confusion and the locking issue) Isn't that why approaches are usually VOR/DME or TACAN interchangably?

 

[FLY_USMC]

Otto I'd say yeah. HH-60, I was taking back my original statement as you got me thinking and I was indeed wrong as it didn't have a Tacan. God I'm getting old.

 

[Harrier Dude]

My gripe is more about the whole "it's the way we do it, so therefore it will be joint" - see if you can find out about the JCAS pub, and the requirement for Commander's Initials that was demanded by the AF - not the USMC. Then you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Are you trying to bait me into this mess?

BTW......who "owns the bomb*"?:icon_rage





*I say this for entertainment purposes ONLY. Any Marine who utters this question with any degree of seriousness should be kicked in the nuts repeatedly.

 

[Ghstrdrvt]

Why the hell does this question always come up. I just finished primary at Corpus and selected jets. Two guys I went to API with selected the same week (They went there because of this crap about vance guys getting jets)... One went P-3's and one went helos. You'll have a blast in the T-34 and one thing you can't do on your first T-6 solo is open the canopy in flight and fly around a bit with the top down. (not sure if it's allowed or not, but it has been known to happen).

What is this obsession with API people trying to convince others about the planes' capabilities... Believe me it'll be a handful either way. Talking about pulling G's? Are you remembering how fun those 45 degree AOB turns were in the Cessna 172 in IFS? More G-LOC incidents occur in T-34's than T-45's and F-18's combined! 4.5 G's w/o a G suit feels like plenty.

This discussion was annoying when I was in API and it's still ridiculous now.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Are you trying to bait me into this mess?

Not really, but if you want to come in, the water's warm...

BTW......who "owns the bomb*"?:icon_rage





*I say this for entertainment purposes ONLY. Any Marine who utters this question with any degree of seriousness should be kicked in the nuts repeatedly.

DON'T even get me started... While you and I may not see eye to eye at times (being that you're a fairy, and I'm a real man!), we agree wholeheartedly about the BS that is the JCAS pub...

Oh, and for the newbies? Think about it this way - Hajji owns the bomb. We (the FACs + Attacking Aircraft) work together as a team to ensure that, rather than just blatantly pointing fingers to cover one's ass...

You'll have a blast in the T-34 and one thing you can't do on your first T-6 solo is open the canopy in flight and fly around a bit with the top down. (not sure if it's allowed or not, but it has been known to happen).

I don't know why it wouldn't be allowed... If you had a gnarly breakfast burrito, and your "fumes" were debilitating... You'd HAVE to crack the canopy and follow proper smoke & fume elimination procedures...

 

[Gatordev]

More G-LOC incidents occur in T-34's than T-45's and F-18's combined!

Careful with throwing around that tidbit of gouge. It's a loaded statistic.

 

[Kickflip89]

SNFO to the rescue(?) w/T-6 gouge! Here are the numbers and gripes / praise I hear from instructors:

2900 ft-lbs of torque @ 100% Tq(131% is our listed transient max)
1100 flat-rated shaft horsepower
3400 lbs thrust, sea level, 0 airspeed
GPS
VOR/ILS
NO TACAN
No survival vest
seat survival kit hangs from a 12 foot lanyard when released
very easy to release from chute
ejection seat always active
symmetric load = 7gs (-3.5)
ditching / landing on unprepared srfc = good way to die.
no fuel bladders in wing tanks
CFS doesn't work if canopy warped
Trim Aid Device somewhat useless
fuel shown as analog gauge for each wing tank (have to ADD to get TOTAL?!?!)
Break @ 250 kts / 87 AoB / +4 gs is fun
Only 18 EPs with boldface (less at vance)
Normal Cruise = 200 kts


That's all I can think of at the moment

 

[MasterBates]

NO TACAN?!!!

WTF.

I hate the AF way = Joint mentality.

 

[scoolbubba]

No Beta either, but according to JPATS guys at Vance, that was a Navy decision, not an AF.

Not sure on the validity of that, though. Found it a bit ridiculous, myself.

 

[Morgan81]

No Beta either, but according to JPATS guys at Vance, that was a Navy decision, not an AF.

Not sure on the validity of that, though. Found it a bit ridiculous, myself.

Not according to about five or six IPs I was talking to about the T-6. They said the AF didn't want it since none of their turboprop planes have it so they didn't want their studs picking up any bad habits.
Second or third-hand knowledge, take it for what it's worth but it made sense to me.

ejection seat always active

That sounds like a problem. Anyone know if any studs punch themselves out by dropping a checklist or something?